Increase pen on p4

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[Spartan_Marine88]

Also might i add while realism is not a factor, the StuG had a very prestigious record shouldn't that somewhat be reflected in the game? (even if it means a minor price increase)

[Jodomar]

O, I use p4's well and get a decent amount of inf kills with them. It just saddens me that I can't reliably pen a sherm/firefly.

[Spartan_Marine88]

How i look at it is, whats the attrition of what i killed, is it more then the units cost (generally for the p4 its yes) so its doing its job. I do get saddened as well that it seems rather impotent versus the sherman.

[AmPM]

Just took a P4 down to 25% with my 10% Sherman 76....

SO pathetic.

[Smokaz]

YOU ARE SO GOOD AMPM!!!!

[AmPM]

YOU ARE SO GOOD AMPM!!!!

I know, but the P4 is really kind of a sad vehicle right now. It needs to come down in price slightly.

[Ahnungsloser]

If the Sherman want to have a fair battle against the PIV it need the M1AC Upgun. (+30 Fuel Extra)
And don't forget that the Sherman deals -10% Damage against a PIV with skirts and with the veterancy one it's -25% received damage in total.


If you lose a PIV in such a fight you had made something wrong!

[8thRifleRegiment]

YOU ARE SO GOOD AMPM!!!!

[Nijo]

Who the fuck would fight a Sherman with a p4???
A stupid one... Get a pak to support and easy win. Same fOr allies. This Game is about combined forces and Not about singel units beating the shit Out of each other...


I use the p4 to kill inf and support weapons. Maybe lv's

What you can do is to bring some more "meat" in a bigger fight with a p4 but not more.
Same for Sherman or have you ever tried to kill a Panther with him?
No you distract him with a Sherman but kill him m10s or atgs.


My opinion

~Nijo~

[tank130]

Just took a P4 down to 25% with my 10% Sherman 76....

SO pathetic.

uh huh.......

Should have saved the replay of when I killed a Tiger Ace in all of 30 seconds with a Vet 3 Hellcat.

Soon you will be signing your posts

- AmPm

[aeroblade56]

If we had AMPM on the balance team nothing would change.

[tank130]

If we had AMPM on the balance team nothing would change.

Wrong.....

Game Design, Balance, and hours of work would all be replaced with a couple of price changes....LOL

[CrazyWR]

Balance would improve tremendously if AMPM were on the balance team honestly.

[tank130]

Balance would improve tremendously if AMPM were on the balance team honestly.

ROFLMAO....... there is a very small handful of units that are not balanced currently. I would guess about 5. So your statement is over exaggerated at best.

Most of the game imbalances we have are a result of doctrines - complete and incomplete.


The biggest problem with balance is the players: Take this thread as an example. About half the people posting here think the P4 needs a change, the other half do not. So if the Dev team changed the P4 - half the people posting would claim it is balanced and the other half would claim it is not.

Good luck changing that with a price fix......LOL

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Well here is an idea, Mirror everything.

[Groundfire]

Micro level balance changes are put forth on a perspective basis. There is very little in this game that we can objectively find balanced or imbalanced.

That is where we stand right now. You think the P4 needs a pen increase? Cool, alot of people do not, what makes your analysis so much better than theirs?

It's the SDTs job to sift through the static and deduce whether or not the clamor for change and the purposed solution is indeed the root cause of the problem, or a minority of the community complaining about a symptom of a much broader issue.

Pretty much any fix/problem for a P4 is a symptom of a non condusive medium tank environment.

Fix that first.

[AmPM]

Micro level balance changes are put forth on a perspective basis. There is very little in this game that we can objectively find balanced or imbalanced.

That is where we stand right now. You think the P4 needs a pen increase? Cool, alot of people do not, what makes your analysis so much better than theirs?

It's the SDTs job to sift through the static and deduce whether or not the clamor for change and the purposed solution is indeed the root cause of the problem, or a minority of the community complaining about a symptom of a much broader issue.

Pretty much any fix/problem for a P4 is a symptom of a non condusive medium tank environment.

Fix that first.

Which is where my original comment on Medium Armor in another thread comes in, increase price of M10/M18 (recently done, needs further testing) as well as man portable AT. ATGs seem to be ok currently but could probably use looking at. Along with those changes, increase cost of Heavy Armor (Panther, Tiger, Pershing, Churchill Croc, Jadg, KT) to keep in balance with the amounts of AT on field.

Right now, AT is much to cost effective compared to Medium tanks. By AT I mean TDs across the board, ATGs are closest to being ok, and handheld needs to be harder to field. Having 4 57mm and 7 M18's because they destroy all enemy armor in view is stupid, but normal and more importantly EFFECTIVE in the current EIRR environment. Having 5 P4's or Shermans and 4/5 ATGs is not nearly as good.

And as always, the STuG is mostly fucked.

[PonySlaystation]

While we all wish that the Stug had better penetration, damage and a stronger front armor like it should have, it does have the suppression MG gunner and pretty good accuracy against infantry, especially with T3 and T4 tank buffs.

So the Stug is kind of like an M8, good against infantry and LV but not so great against tanks.

So what would be more relevant is a rework of the unit, where it would become more of a tank destroyer/ambush unit like the M10 and M18 and less like an M8.

[AmPM]

Well, the STuGs biggest issues are the high amount of allied TDs and ATGs on field.

It's good vs Shermans and ok vs Infantry. It has no HP though so anything that cuts through that armor kills it fast. 2 shots for an AP ATG.

[NightRain]

While we all wish that the Stug had better penetration, damage and a stronger front armor like it should have, it does have the suppression MG gunner and pretty good accuracy against infantry, especially with T3 and T4 tank buffs.

So the Stug is kind of like an M8, good against infantry and LV but not so great against tanks.

So what would be more relevant is a rework of the unit, where it would become more of a tank destroyer/ambush unit like the M10 and M18 and less like an M8.

StuG's frontal is better than P4s, it is one of the best armors in the game. It has good base damage and it gets more from modifiers therefore the StuG's pretty much fine and can tackle ANY Armor except heavy. If anything StuG is balanced and fine.