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Author Topic: Modeling for COH  (Read 11627 times)
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Groundfire Offline
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511



« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2012, 06:19:50 pm »

Its a stupid and ridiculous standard that somehow plauges only this community.

If you think that any other mod doesnt recycle art assets from other mainstream games, that they make it all by scratch, by themselves, you gotta be up a tree.

All the countless RTS's total converted into Star Wars or Star Trek or some other popular genre.
Shit, I just found a Star Wars EAW mod fully converted with EVE online ships. The list goes on.

CoH is a dying game. Anything that can be used as new content should be used.

We just get this terribad bottle neck waiting for the guys at RN to produce. I'd like to see an M3 Lee, but no one takes requests...

Not that I am not greatful, shit I love everything they come up with, but if a talented animator comes along with some converted models from another game, you either let him do his thing or give him some damn models so he doesn't have to take them from other sources.

Models are nothing bug Triangles positioned together to look like some physical object. Change one thing or restructure it or reduce the triangles or position them differently and it's no longer the set of triangles created by MoW. If you do all the animating yourself, then aside from the skinning and other nick nacks, it's all your own work as far as I am concerned.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 06:27:39 pm by Groundfire » Logged

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tank130 Offline
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2012, 06:47:41 pm »

What it really boils down to is the copy right laws in your country. As an architect, I have sued numerous people for copy right infringement.

In Canada, Copy right is simple. The moment you create something, it is copy righted. It does not need to be registered. You just need to have something that proves you created it first. When I design a home, I Email a copy of the design to myself and there is my proof of creation.

Proving copy right infringement is waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy more complicated. There is no such thing as a "written in stone" set of rules. Basically a panel of legal copy right dudes are put in a room with the work and the decide if it is an infringement or not. There is a guideline they follow, but it is very subjective.

In regards to this model and the laws in my country: I would have no issue whatsoever of using these models in our MOD. First of all, they are a representation of something created by someone else. The SdKfz 231 was not invented by MOW, they just created a representation of it. Second, this is a free mod, so we are not using the model for financial gain.

So yeah, use the damn thing!!!!
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tank130 Offline
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2012, 06:48:09 pm »

And for animation: This may be useful.

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/games/articles/rendering-animated-models.html
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Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2012, 07:47:34 pm »

Copyright law, especially in America but also in the rest of the world has gone from protecting small businesses and encourage creativity to help feed the big corporations bottom line.

You got enough money you can badger both individuals and smaller companies to submission no matter if you are right nor not. Case in point the Disney corporation; when they steal borrow something it's ok, but if it's the other way around you get utterly crushed. Kimba the White lion anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk862BbjWx4

TL;DR EIR mod can get in trouble for using MoW models for the simple reason that they are bigger.
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tank130 Offline
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2012, 08:29:10 pm »

TL;DR EIR mod can get in trouble for using MoW models for the simple reason that they are bigger.

Perhaps if he was in America.......
The problem is, I don't think there has been a precedent set for "proven" Copy Right infringement by someone in a country where the laws are different. I could be wrong on that.

You would also have to define "Get in trouble". As this is a free mod, the courts would have trouble defining loss of revenue or royalties.
Our mod requires the user to purchase CoH to play it, so you may have troubles proving MOW lost revenues. However, it could be argued that the consumer was influenced by our Mod advertising, if it included images of the MOW models, to purchase CoH instead of MOW.

Using American law of "Innocent until proven guilty" it would be up to MOW to prove that the consumer would have purchased MOW if it had not been for the great advertising of Eirr persuading the consumer to purchase CoH....... ummmm, good luck with that.




Using my own business experience, here is what typically happens with copy right infringement.
1.) My lawyer sends a cease and desist letter to the alleged offender.
2.) an assessment is made by my company of the potential revenues lost by the use of my product.
3.) An invoice for that amount is sent to the alleged offenders.
4.) If they pay it, all is good. If they do not, then....

1.) Because copy right law is very, very fucking expensive, I have to decide if it is worth pursuing.
2.) If it is a direct competitor deliberately stealing my work, then I go after them with everything I got.
3.) If it is just a individual home owner that saw my design on the internet, loved it and had it copied, then I just charge them for the cost of the design.

In one case, we discovered the use of a design, before the home was built. In that case they abide by the cease and desist letter and that was the end of it.




So here's where I am going with this.
MOW is not going to spend thousands of dollars on lawyers to bust some dude on the internet for using a couple of their models in a free to play mod. What they may do is, send a nasty letter to Eirrmod requesting a cease and desist. To which Eirrmod will abide by because it is just not worth getting into a shit storm over.

That will be the end of it.
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EscforrealityTLS Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 593



« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2012, 11:19:06 pm »

Oh let me clear something up here, obviously no one is copy righting the physical objects themselves, it is the digital models the we are not legally allowed to use due to copy right infringement. I get your point about how this mod is free and all, but the guys doing the modelling are in or trying to get into the industry that we are suggesting stealing from, obviously they are not going to be cool with that.

To top that the Relicnews forum moderation is retarded and over the top so even having this discussion would get me banned. Due to that alone means that one of the more active COH forums where modders congregate can't have active discussion on "other" art assets.
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NightRain Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908



« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2012, 02:16:03 am »

But 1Company  aka Men of War is made in Russia...
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Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2012, 02:38:37 am »

But 1Company  aka Men of War is made in Russia...

Doesn't matter, at all. Maybe might have made a difference if they ONLY sold their games in Russia.
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Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2012, 03:21:18 am »

What we need is someone to steal borrow models from MoW, make some kind of minuscule change to them and then give them to EIR and tell the devs that you made the model yourself.
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hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2012, 03:23:33 am »

What we need is someone to steal borrow models from MoW, make some kind of minuscule change to them and then give them to EIR and tell the devs that you made the model yourself.

+1
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Also, bad analogy ground, My vegetables never pissed on my ego when I decided they defeated me and gave up on dessert.
Smokaz Offline
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Posts: 11418



« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2012, 05:53:24 am »

Gee, we should really use a few of those models posted in this thread. A stuart hp/armor Panzer I with a wirbelwind gun? Sounds pretty awsm
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EscforrealityTLS Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 593



« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2012, 08:44:42 am »

Here are all the new models for COH that have been released that I know of:

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?245065-CMP-MG-34-and-MG-42-by-inukshuk-released!
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?248022-HTs-amp-TDs-3D-Factory-new-custom-models-Sturmpanzer-VI
http://forum.medpackstudios.com/viewforum.php?f=407

There are a lot more than I think people here seem to realise.
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Groundfire Offline
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511



« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2012, 09:59:37 am »

We actually know of and make use of almost all custom content provided by RN.
Our issue is that the range of models that are public fall into the '44 - 45 era of technology. Being that Eirr is a kind of 'what if...' war recreation scenario mod, eventually we are going to need access to early war outdated tech and even very late war experimental tech, which is something RN cant provide us in a timely fashion.
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LeoPhone Offline
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« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2012, 10:21:27 am »

lol sturmtiger inc.
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8thRifleRegiment Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2210



« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2012, 10:42:57 am »

I can haz Ratte?
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Ohh Good, AmPm can pay in Doubloons.
hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2012, 10:45:13 am »



new troop transporter for Brits



IMBAA!!
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WildZontar Offline
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« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2012, 03:30:09 pm »

If we could get all this stuff added into EiR, I wonder how much more fun it would be to play.
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LeoPhone Offline
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« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2012, 03:32:41 pm »

If we could get all this stuff added into EiR, I wonder how much more fun it would be to play.

not that much fyi
we already have the best custom models as reward units. just wait till the warmap is finished...
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WildZontar Offline
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« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2012, 03:55:22 pm »

not that much fyi
we already have the best custom models as reward units. just wait till the warmap is finished...

Really? I always thought that if we brought in a whole handful of new units and weapons would make games  more colorful because of a wide variety of units to use.


Wait for warmap? Lol  Grin
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Smokaz Offline
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Posts: 11418



« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2012, 05:30:03 pm »

Need more infantry weapons and units imo
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