Israel invading Iran

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[Spartan_Marine88]

difference is, Israel has its nukes mainly for defensive purposes "stay the f away or we'll nukeyou" iran wants them for offensive purposes "i hate u,, i k33l yoo"

Go American propaganda machine.

[Sachaztan]

Go American propaganda machine.

Yeah because Israel screams for the destruction of Iran and the grand menace of Muslims ^^

[nikomas]

Yeah because Israel screams for the destruction of Iran and the grand menace of Muslims ^^

Ever figured that maybe Iran thinks that everybody wants to murder them and want nukes so they can say "Stay the FUCK off our lands, mkay?".

Just saying, "Defensive" works several ways.

[Tymathee]

Go American propaganda machine.

Propaganda machine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hLDjGdJC0Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmfRcXBOlA0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFM93aCyzM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbRHrduTvBM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2KG7Y8lxQc

Yeah, Propaganda machine...we totally twisted his words

Ever figured that maybe Iran thinks that everybody wants to murder them and want nukes so they can say "Stay the FUCK off our lands, mkay?".

Just saying, "Defensive" works several ways.

No one gave a crap about Iran until they started building nukes.

[nikomas]

No one gave a crap about Iran until they started building nukes.

Your point of view does not equal their point of view.

[Tymathee]

Your point of view does not equal their point of view.

i dont understand how me saying no one cared about iran until they started building nukes has to do with their point of view?

btw, no shat my pov doesn't equal their pov. I dont desire to wipe a whole peoples out of history, say that the killing of 6 million of them was a total lie and continue to lie and BS the world while crossing my fingers behind my back.

the only people who defend iraq are either people who think like them (other muslims mainly Shia), hate israel (Musclims, some Euro's, some Americans), are making money off of them (china, russian) or hate america thus israel by proxy.

So basically, Israel is probably the most hated nation in the world and they generally try to keep to themselves. <--watch that create a discussion

[Unkn0wn]

difference is, Israel has its nukes mainly for defensive purposes "stay the f away or we'll nukeyou" iran wants them for offensive purposes "i hate u,, i k33l yoo"

That's stupid. No one wants nukes for offensive purposes. (Look up MAD) Nukes are always pursued as a deterrence, even by a seemingly irrational country as Iran. Not to mention that what is 'defensive' for one country can be interpreted as 'offensive' for another. This is why for example the missile defense shield is perceived as a threat by countries like Russia (Since it would in effect allow the US to strike without having to fear retaliation)

You'd think Americans would have learned after the Cold War.

Also, since when does anything Ahmadinijad say count for shit? Sure he uses extreme rhetoric, but that doesn't count for shit in international politics.

[Spartan_Marine88]

the only people who defend iraq are either people who think like them (other muslims mainly Shia), hate israel (Musclims, some Euro's, some Americans), are making money off of them (china, russian) or hate america thus israel by proxy.

Tym you really need to think before you speak. Maybe look beyond what you are told. I think you really need to research into Israel maybe look at some of their actions which may or may not have encouraged the view being leveraged against them.

[Tymathee]

Tym you really need to think before you speak. Maybe look beyond what you are told. I think you really need to research into Israel maybe look at some of their actions which may or may not have encouraged the view being leveraged against them.

You assume I don't know the things they've done, but I do but that doesn't mean that anybody should want to destroy a freakin country and a whole peoples.

Let's name all the empires who have done the same things that some countries are getting on Israel about.

Germany
Great Britian
France
Romans
United States
China
Russia
Persia/Iran
Iraq
Turkey/Ottomans
Saudi's
Japanese
Egyptians
Greece

That's all off the top of my head.

All of those countries/peoples took over nations, displaced people, created empires and spread their boarders off the carcases of others much worse than the Israelies have done.

BTW, which country fought off a sneak attack by two countries on both boarders with overwhelming force, not to stop them from doing anything or to spread their boarders but to wipe them out? Yeah israel agaisnt syria and egypt.

I'm sorry spartan but your dislike of Israel is clouding your historical vision. To hate one country for anything is wrong, hate the leadership yes, but not the peoples.

I don't dislike Iran, I dislike their leadership.

I'm also not saying Israel is a freakin saint, I'm just saying it's wrong for these idiots to say what they want to say, even if it's rhetoric. Why? Because there are other iditos out there that will believe them and try to carry out the rhetoric.

Aminajad (i dont care how to spell his name) didn't come out and "haha, just kidding, they're cool" nah, he kept goin and isn't dispariging anybody from carrying out terrorist acts against people.

[nikomas]

And as a certain comedian said, Iran getting nukes so they can launch one?

Since Unkn0wn mentioned MAD, such a theory does not exist with smaller countries such as Iran, if Iran were to launch a nuke?
It would be a great, great tradegy, but what would happen? Iran would be bombed into non existance in retaliation and nobody would defend them because they FIRED A FUCKING NUKE.

You dont think Iran knows this, do you honestly think anyone on their goverment wants that to happen? Regardless if them having a nuke is horrible or not, I doubt they would be stupid enough to fire it.

[Spartan_Marine88]

I'm sorry spartan but your dislike of Israel is clouding your historical vision. To hate one country for anything is wrong, hate the leadership yes, but not the peoples.

I am sorry Tym, you know nothing about me. Only claim that i hate Israel because i told you to open your eyes when your making them out to be this beleaguered little country.

I think you should do some actual studying about the country and look deep into it.

[Tymathee]

I am sorry Tym, you know nothing about me. Only claim that i hate Israel because i told you to open your eyes when your making them out to be this beleaguered little country.

I think you should do some actual studying about the country and look deep into it.

i didn't make them out to be a beleagured country, did you read the rest of my post or just skip to the end? I'm confident I know more about israel's history than you and i've yet to see anything in their history to justify the anger that is leaved toward them that NO OTHER COUNTRY HAS DONE.

[Sachaztan]

And as a certain comedian said, Iran getting nukes so they can launch one?

Since Unkn0wn mentioned MAD, such a theory does not exist with smaller countries such as Iran, if Iran were to launch a nuke?
It would be a great, great tradegy, but what would happen? Iran would be bombed into non existance in retaliation and nobody would defend them because they FIRED A FUCKING NUKE.

You dont think Iran knows this, do you honestly think anyone on their goverment wants that to happen? Regardless if them having a nuke is horrible or not, I doubt they would be stupid enough to fire it.

You're talking as if religious extremists have a fully functioning rational brain and that they base their decisions on logic.

[AmPM]

You're talking as if religious extremists have a fully functioning rational brain and that they base their decisions on logic.

You talk like the people in charge are mindless extremists instead of people manipulating religion and poor education for personal gain.

[Sachaztan]

You talk like the people in charge are mindless extremists instead of people manipulating religion and poor education for personal gain.

Oh I'm sorry, didn't know you were such an expert on Iran and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that you can say this for sure.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Regardless of where you stand on the Israel/Iran debate, I think some of the tactics (or lack thereof) being employed in this discussion have been pretty shameful.

I've found Tym's arguments in this thread to be more logically supported than those against him, but that is the least of the problems here. The bigger problem is the venom and discourtesy underlying the way the arguments (if they can even be called that) are being attempted.

He's gone through the effort of gathering primary document video examples to support his statements as well as offering a concillatory position that aknowledges fault on both sides of the Israel/Iran debate -- a sign of an attempt to earnestly engage in discussion. It's one thing to disagree with his statements, and to engage them on that disagreement, but this petulent and ill-concieved contempt approach is embarrassingly inadequate.

In return he's had blanket, sweeping dismissals like "lol propaganda machine" and completely unrelated and personal attacks like "you need to think before you speak" employed as if those somehow qualify as an actual discussion. Even if a side was right, they would do their opinion/point no justice by behaving like that.

"You need to read more into it" is not an effective rebut to an argument, especially when the only person who has actually provided some kind of supporting documentation is the one it's being told to.

-Wind

[AmPM]

Shut up Wind, nobody cares about you.

[RoyalHants]

Wind raises a pretty good point

[jackmccrack]

The last war Iran fought was a defensive war against Iraq.

[Poppi]

The last war Iran fought was a defensive war against Iraq.

and supporting Iraq by giving them soldiers and resources.