Police brutality

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[Dnicee]

you could think that 1 out of 6 cops should be able to hit the leg within 10 m.

Isnt that what the training is for btw? learn to aim and hit the target?

[smurfORnot]

why would they need to shoot gun before training? Point of the training is to learn...
In military they train you to kill,and yet,I am quite sure that most of the guys have never killed anyone before military...after,well,people get quite good at killing as it can be seen...
how much doctors have operated patient before they went to medical school?
etc. etc.

[DarkSoldierX]

you could think that 1 out of 6 cops should be able to hit the leg within 10 m.

Isnt that what the training is for btw? learn to aim and hit the target?

There isn't training for that in 90% of the worlds police forces. Matter of fact, have you ever even shot a gun before? Do you have any idea how hard it is to hit a moving leg on the fly 5 meters away?

[Dnicee]

Im so happy you asked me that!

yes i have fired a rifle or two, in fact im a proud owner of a k98k which i use to hunt with.

But never a pistol though.

yes ive fired against moving targets, and no its hard if the tartget comes right at you, sideways however is much harder.

[tankmaster23]

glad I don't live in US...

 Me to...hahahaha

[DarkSoldierX]

Notice how easy it is to stabalize a rifle? Pick up a handgun and trust me its not the same. Pick up any handgun you will see how much harder it gets.

And I for one really doubt a training session that involves shooting the leg to become widespread anytime soon. You need to remember that in order for that training session to even take effect on the officer, it must become instinct because most people just wont think enough in these situations, European or American.

[AmPM]

you could think that 1 out of 6 cops should be able to hit the leg within 10 m.

Isnt that what the training is for btw? learn to aim and hit the target?

No, you are trained to shoot the chest, not the leg, not the arm, the chest.

Reason 1: Better chance of hitting, less risk to others.

Reason 2: The target does not get back up and keep going like they would with a wound to an extremity.

 

[Dnicee]

Read my post again ampm! LEARN TO AIM AND HIT THE TARGET.

And by that i mean you should be able to hit whatever you aim at least most of the times.

your logic is dumb, the police should not shoot to kill if they can avoid it!

This isnt a war...

[Dnicee]

Notice how easy it is to stabalize a rifle? Pick up a handgun and trust me its not the same. Pick up any handgun you will see how much harder it gets.

oh yea, well try holding a 4kg rifle for more then a min and see how steady it becomes when you aim, then you have the bolt action on hunting rifles.

A handgun is lighter have rapid fire... so yeah, i think you should be able to hit a leg from 10 m.

[AmPM]

Read my post again ampm! LEARN TO AIM AND HIT THE TARGET.

And by that i mean you should be able to hit whatever you aim at least most of the times.

your logic is dumb, the police should not shoot to kill if they can avoid it!

This isnt a war...

You learn to do it by reflex Dnice. I don't even need to think about where I am aiming, meaning I can react faster. That half second of hesitation will get you dead if the other guy isn't trying to disable you.

Same thing. It may not be a war, but you can die just as fast as a law enforcer. I wouldn't blame a cop for trying to go home to his family alive and in one piece.


Also lol

oh yea, well try holding a 4kg rifle for more then a min and see how steady it becomes when you aim, then you have the bolt action on hunting rifles.

A handgun is lighter have rapid fire... so yeah, i think you should be able to hit a leg from 10 m.

Wait...so for safety you want police to unload 12-15 rounds from their magazine in rapid succession in a populated area with people around in order to stop 1 aggressive dangerous person by crippling them for life with a leg wound?

WTF

[nikomas]

No, your whole discussion is dumb, it's fucking restarted...

YOU NEVER SHOOT TO WOUND, IF YOU ARE SHOOTING, YOU SHOOT TO KILL, NO FUCKING EXCEPTIONS, IF YOU ARE NOT SHOOTING TO KILL, YOU SIMPLY DONT FIRE... It's a fucking basic rule, gah

That, is why, they invented... NON LETHAL WEAPONS. Sadly, the american police is to cool to use these, going by how often they fire sharp.

[nikomas]

so for safety you want police to unload 12-15 rounds from their magazine in rapid succession in a populated area with people around in order to stop 1 aggressive dangerous person by crippling them for life with a leg wound?

The WTF part is not the leg, it's... wait, why would they need more than 1 or two bullets!? Actually, you know what produces no casualties even if it misses? Oh right, those non lethal weapons...

You people are arguing the wrong fucking things.

[3rdCondor]

There are plenty of respectable police officers in the United States, but there are some that are also crooked. The reality of the fact is that humans will be humans. Just because someone wears a badge doesn't mean that he/she will not make a mistake, or even be crooked. I am proud to be and American, and proud to have a great police force in Cincinnati, but also in Columbus Ohio.

[Dnicee]

well yeah ampm... im sure he was an awesome knifethrower! so they decided to cap him 30+ times, that seems safe in a populated area.


And fuck, im not talking about shooting someone in the leg that has a fucking live gun!

Good for you btw that you are such a fast sharpshooter!

[tank130]

There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S.


You guys arguing that all cops in America are fucked is like saying a bike is OP because you saw a video of it destroying a Pershing.......

Yes, there are some fucked cops that need to be removed ASAP. It does not mean we need to rebalanced the entire fucking law enforcement agency.

[aeroblade56]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfOBM6wJZaQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=71s

Current police beating suggest u watch tank.

[Demon767]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZm5eZMKQEY

[brn4meplz]

LoL. A knife? So what. Shoot his leg or something. He was too far away to do shit. And stumbling in the other direction is hardly a threat.

I had to call this out Baine.
First off, Shotting someone in the leg is a good way to get you fired. The firearm is for lethal force only. Using it in any other capacity will end poorly for the person drawing it.

This is the completely wrong mentality to hold. Alot of people ask why they didn't just disable him or shoot his leg or something. It's completely against the morality of why Peace Officers carry firearms. If the situation warrants a lethal force option you always aim for the center of mass(Torso usually). You typically fire in a double tap bare minimum. Not only is that the standard training in most cases, but it's also part of the mindset that helps prevent a Peace Officer from becoming a stress casualty(PTSD, guilt, and other mindfucks) He needs to mentally prepare himself ahead of time that using the weapon means taking a life. As soon as that weapon comes up he is nearly committed and mental state of acceptance is entered.


Now that doesn't mean he has to shoot someone, often times a gun diffuses the situation. It also doesn't mean he shoots the guy 5 times and then gets his Camera phone out to pose with the man. Nothing says he can't apply first aid after a shooting, as long as protocols are still followed regarding restraints.

Not having these procedures in place HAS(statistical fact!) resulted in more officer deaths in the past.


Now, onto Knives.
1. The effective lethal range of the average knife wielding crazy is 6-7m. Your average able bodied male will close that distance in under a second and a half to two seconds in most cases.(Fact)
2. You will be hard pressed to draw your weapon and place two shots that will hit the torso, let alone the leg in that time.
3. Continuing to attempt to use a gun while in a knife melee will get you stabbed or cut. You will most likely lose the engagement.


Non-Lethal Options.

Non lethal options are good solutions and diffuse many situations effectively. However, the age of the rampant taser or bean bag is long behind us. A very small percentage of Taser use cases resulted in the deaths of the person.(and I mean very small) but it garnered alot of media attention and the application of Tasers as a non lethal option has been questioned. In most cases that I'm aware of Tasers are issued to Tactical teams and supervisory positions. Those people are usually not the first officers responding and thus wont have access to the non lethal option.

Pepper spray is a good deterrent and will help but it's not an absolute. A decent amount of the population has a high tolerance to capsicum. People who have been exposed to it before are prepared for it, and anyone currently drunk or high will usually not register the pain.

Not only that but a percentage of the population has an immunity things like CS gas.

Bean bag weapons are a very specialized piece of equipment and are likely only in the hands of a tactical unit.

[Sachaztan]

then we have ampms way of doing things, seems legit....


this one is a bit worse so do not watch this one, guy dies.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d16_1344853536

Those are Turkish cops.

You know Turkey, the country that is known for it's strong civil rights

[Sachaztan]

There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S.


You guys arguing that all cops in America are fucked is like saying a bike is OP because you saw a video of it destroying a Pershing.......

Yes, there are some fucked cops that need to be removed ASAP. It does not mean we need to rebalanced the entire fucking law enforcement agency.

When I read actions and reactions were taken in cases like this I would say that USA has a pretty big problem with police brutality that persists in the system itself.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cerd/docs/ngos/usa/USHRN15.pdf

Since the videos posted provides such a strong evidence pretty much all involved officers should be fired, be prosecuted and prevented from ever being hired for any kind of similar job. This by all looks of it has never, or very rarely, been the case.