Proposal to EIRRMOD, the Devs and the community.

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[3rdCondor]

Maybe people are really just as busy as I am and can't play. Many of us are college students, and I'm not really majoring in basket weaving ya know.

[pqumsieh]

Well there is a reward for helping out, you could potentially get an early invite to a COH2 play test.

[Tymathee]

lies...you're just trying to get my hopes up

[Demon767]

Bitch please im play testing at eb expo next week!

[ick312]

gentlemen,

my honest opinion is that the massive imbalance, which is favoring the allied factions, is an essential reason, why people stop playing this. And you all know the second step: offending players after a game, where you clearly lost against the units - not against the player! Well this dicourages .
I will never forget how hard i was fooled after i complained (and even when i was raging, i was still objective and gave quite clear points) about a the latest inbalance changes.

Another thing is the dev team. Well first of all thanks to the most devs. invested alot of time and i am honestly thankful for that. And now to the ******* from the balance team. Well ok i applied(even before the latest patch) to become a member cause i had certain ideas and my name was mentioned in the application thread- did i got an answer? NO
i thought "ok, no problem, they have enough cool guys" and then this patch.....
ok a short time after this idiot patch the smarty behind it came out. Well and he stated clearly in the forums: be at that time in ventrilo then i listen to your concerns. ok fine.
I was there. Channel was muted. So i opened a chat:
"ME: hey you wanted to know what the problems are. - HE: No actually not." I will never forget this. this guy is part of the dev team? I also tried to speak to another BT member- no answer. Sorry guys but tell me how i can keep any respect for the balance team.

To summarize it: use the banhammer harder to teach manners. Change the culture in the balance team. Fix the balance or go back to a back up (cause i think this costs the most players).


PS. to the communication thing with the community: I switched to OMG, when the balance became a catastrophy. There was every evening a dev online and playing, he heard all the complains and rage. I have not that often seen a dev playing in eirr . Well anyway í suck at OMG. But still one of the devs asked me about my opinion of this mod and if i have some ideas what could be changed. Well i told him. And he saw that i had alot of ideas and he told me to make a list of them and he would pass them on (they are properly not inplemented) but that is how you communicate with the community

[Tymathee]

ick, devs here play all the time, you may not know who everyone is but they do play and they do listen but part of the problem with communication between the devs and the community IS the rage.

When posts or opinions are made in a concise manner, they get listened to quicker than if someone gets their butt handed to them and you rage about it in a seemingly unthoughtful manner.

I wont say anything negative about OMG but there's a reason why they're taking so long to implement certain stuff and listening TOO much to people may be it as they just now got all their T1's implemented while EIR has redone full doctrines at least 5 times.

However, I do agree some type of regular communication on the progress of the mod would be welcome and I have brought that forward myself, it woudl belay frustration because we feel like we're heard, even posts saying "we understand the issue and it will be addressed or looked into" would belay fears and frustration, i do think those posts should immediately be closed upon such comments to allieviate any further rage posts or arguing on a subject that's been addressed by a dev member (BT included).

[ick312]

theres another thing that i mentioned a thousand times! the problems with the stacks. well give a player 1,5% reroll chances for each difference in the win/loss ratio  of the both teams. AND give a single reward point if the the win/loss ratio differs by more than 20%, for the best  player (win/loss ratio) in the bad team. If they win give the others also 1 reward point.


BUT WHY I AM I WRITING IT? IF ANY DEV READ THIS GIVE ME A SIGN

[AmPM]

Why would you reward terrible play with a reroll?

[ick312]

well tym,

let me be blunt with you. i accept your opinion. BUT DONT tell how i behaved, even when i was raging i was clearly addressing issues and giving proposals to fix it. I was very constructive and not just raging and insulting. And when i spoke with the BT guys i was calm and friendly, like nothern germans are. So dont tell anything about MY manners, cause í had them.

kiss i still love you

[ick312]

Why would you reward terrible play with a reroll?

i would do that to encourage good players to play with bad ones. Cause good players get less chance to lose their cool stuff.

[tank130]

Ick,

A member of the dev team has read these posts as well as your other posts. Pertinent information has been gathered.

Please make a note to yourself: We always appreciate input from the community. Especially when it is presented in a clear, concise, and unbiased manner.

gentlemen,

my honest opinion is that the massive imbalance, which is favoring the allied factions, is an essential reason, why people stop playing this.

Posts that start with the opening line as noted above, are usually passed over and regarded as a biased rage post. Even if you are 100% correct (I personally feel you are not) you have offered nothing statistical or concrete to back up your claim. It is merely an opinion, nothing more.

The second thing you need to keep in mind is: just because you mentioned it, does not mean it will be changed.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, you can not find a single thread in the balance forums where every community member agrees. No matter what we do, someone will be unhappy and complain no one listens to them.

ick, the Dev team listens, they just may not agree. That's why the decisions are made by a team of people, not an individual. The BT is made up of people who not only play the game, but are able to use corsix and look up the stats.

Sometimes no mater how much you theory craft a change, you just need to throw it out there to test it in real life game conditions. If it is fucked, it will get reworked the following patch.


In regards to communication:

There is nothing to communicate. Other than the BT discussing balance issues, there is fuck all going on. Eirrmod is trying to work on the Warmap, but there is nothing but code shit going on with that. I guess we could post a pic of some lines of code, but wtf would that do?

Seriously - there is nothing to communicate other then the Dev team is getting sick of the negativity of the community and doesn't want to work on anything.

[Tymathee]

well tym,

let me be blunt with you. i accept your opinion. BUT DONT tell how i behaved, even when i was raging i was clearly addressing issues and giving proposals to fix it. I was very constructive and not just raging and insulting. And when i spoke with the BT guys i was calm and friendly, like nothern germans are. So dont tell anything about MY manners, cause í had them.

kiss i still love you

Ii was speaking in generalities when I was giving advice on how to present problems to the dev team, I apologize if I came off as beratting you.

I'm only reciting their own words on how they want things done, there's even a stickied post on it in the balance forum. I just want  EIR to be the best that it can be, I care less about winning and more about enjoying my time.

[tank130]

Derail posts deleted.
Take your theory crafting and balance issues to another thread please.

Game balance is determined by unit stats and design. It will never be determined by human element or play style - fuck me that would be retarded.


If we are done with the original topic, then the thread shall be locked.

[tank130]

Following the wishes of the majority of the forum community, it's time to clean up the forums.

We will start with the 7 day ban of Dnice for the derail, balance forum evasion, and personal insults at a dev.



Lets stay on topic gents

[DjTerror]

Helo guyz.

Let me just say that this is by far the best RTS game/mod that iw played since dayz of Dark Reign.

I can say a few words why i stoped playing and why none of my friends did not continue to play after some tryouts.

Main reason why i stoped playing is STACKING!
No one wants to play (honorable exceptions) if he is not more/less certain that he will win the game... wich is in such small comunity a big problem.
If you can find the way to get rid of it or atleest introduce some bonus penalisation for stackers (launcher can easly be upgraded to recognize players that constantly sit and wait on one side or that constantly play together) you will have larger player base quickly.

Second...
newcommers have a real problems to get the game working from start to launch and actual playing.
After few tryouts people just give up on the game becouse they find it too demanding and lose interest... comments of my friends.

third and also verry important:
Aldo we all love our units and expirience which they earn... they are way overpowered to the newbs that try the game for the first time.
If you can leave vet units basicly the same as the fresh are and add to their veterancy only secondary things that dont directly inpact units strength...
like:
shorter cooldowns, extra bombs, faster speed, larger radius of sight, harder to supress, harder to spot/detect, sandbags, barbed wire, camoflage and milion other things like that...
newcommers would have a fair game and expirienced players would still have gazilion things to play with in order to prove them being better on battlefield.

Just my 5 cents.

and PS:
War map only discouraged newcommers even more... i must agree, it is too complicated and too static... keep the things simple!

Cheers!
And dont give up on this great mod... try to make it greater!

[tank130]

Thanks for you input DjTerror

I do not personally agree with all of your suggestions, but I appreciate your respectful way of posting it.

I do largely agree with the issue of new comers getting stomped. There is no simple solution to this issue that does not cause other problems of it's own, but it is something that is always on the fore front of the dev teams minds.

In regards to new comers having troubles getting started. This is very frustrating for me personally. I spent hours creating tutorials and getting started buttons, just to have new guys ignore it. If every new guy actually watched the tutorial, they would have very little problems.

Just look at 90% of the questions in the tech forum. They can all be answered by clicking the big button on the left of the screen that says "Are you new"

[skaffa]

Ask not what the mod can do for you, ask what you can do for the mod.



awwwwwyeee

[Tymathee]

Thanks for you input DjTerror

I do not personally agree with all of your suggestions, but I appreciate your respectful way of posting it.

I do largely agree with the issue of new comers getting stomped. There is no simple solution to this issue that does not cause other problems of it's own, but it is something that is always on the fore front of the dev teams minds.

In regards to new comers having troubles getting started. This is very frustrating for me personally. I spent hours creating tutorials and getting started buttons, just to have new guys ignore it. If every new guy actually watched the tutorial, they would have very little problems.

Just look at 90% of the questions in the tech forum. They can all be answered by clicking the big button on the left of the screen that says "Are you new"

maybe the tutorials can be included in the installer as pdf's and some message in the installer

[DjTerror]

In regards to new comers having troubles getting started. This is very frustrating for me personally. I spent hours creating tutorials and getting started buttons, just to have new guys ignore it. If every new guy actually watched the tutorial, they would have very little problems.

Just look at 90% of the questions in the tech forum. They can all be answered by clicking the big button on the left of the screen that says "Are you new"

I am aware of these things... i run a small company and web shop business and even thou i think that our checkout is simple as it can be theres allways a certain number of customers that cant handle it... even if it easy as next, next, finish.
...when i see my wife to just click on first button it sees on popup without reading what its all about... i just go crazy!
but thats how people are... you must serve them everything on a platter... and here even more becouse it is a game... thing where people want to relax and enjoy... and let the brain go into a stasis 

[ick312]

I am aware of these things... i run a small company and web shop business and even thou i think that our checkout is simple as it can be theres allways a certain number of customers that cant handle it... even if it easy as next, next, finish.
...when i see my wife to just click on first button it sees on popup without reading what its all about... i just go crazy!
but thats how people are... you must serve them everything on a platter... and here even more becouse it is a game... thing where people want to relax and enjoy... and let the brain go into a stasis 

you are right bro