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[I2ay]

So what you're saying is that its fine for assault grens to be TOTALLY dependent on infantry halftracks to be worth a damn?

[AmPM]

So what you're saying is that its fine for assault grens to be TOTALLY dependent on infantry halftracks to be worth a damn?

Should make Rangers entirely dependent on M3 haltracks TBH

[NightRain]

So what you're saying is that its fine for assault grens to be TOTALLY dependent on infantry halftracks to be worth a damn?

Yes, and are you saying that PE is not meant to roll with wheels?

IHTs boost assault grens mobility and health greatly. They can shoot everything around them and will aquire a MG.

[tank130]

So what you're saying is that its fine for assault grens to be TOTALLY dependent on infantry halftracks to be worth a damn?

I think you are missing the point of PE. They are supposed to be a fast moving mechanized force. Stop trying to play them like Wher

[AmPM]

I think you are missing the point of PE. They are supposed to be a fast moving mechanized force. Stop trying to play them like Wher

Would be valid, except one decent fire team is 8 pop, and 530mp + mu + fu....OH, and some genius set the IHT pool value to 5, so you can't actually make a mechanized force.

[puddin]

I think you are missing the point of PE. They are supposed to be a fast moving mechanized force. Stop trying to play them like Wher

fUNNY HOW THE fAST MOVING GETS NERFED. 

I just tried playing Luft, saw a tier 3 unlockable Heavy support as Flack 38 and a fuckign whirble.  What fuckign fast moving bullshit is that? 

Oh and Double shrecks, that can;t reload while sprinting, or fire on the move, to OP to leave in eh?  Amazing. 

So before you mention fast movign againleTS NOT NERF THE HIGHLY MOBILE / FAST MOVING forces i came to play with.  But then again, its nice to play agsint teams with twice as much PP availible to them and get NO noob dvantaes to balence out the fact thatthey have 276  and 246 against 114 PP. 

[I2ay]

I think you are missing the point of PE. They are supposed to be a fast moving mechanized force. Stop trying to play them like Wher

So every faction has the option of all these different play styles and yet PE is forced to be some kind of hit and run mechanized force? Is that what you're telling me?

[CrazyWR]

Wait, you have sprint which does not give exhaustion, and you're complaining that you do not have a way of getting in and out? Seriously?

On top of that.. if you really feel the assault grens are so fragile then just put them on an IHT. The IHT was MADE for assault grens to board it and go around flanking atgs and killing them almost instantly, as well as raping various other infantry. Oh, some grens may die if you lose the IHT? Learn to flank better, and to quickly unload if shit hits the fan. It's really not that difficult if you're doing it right.

I've used assault grens, specifically on IHTs many times. So has Mukip. So has David. So has any good PE player who didn't just go teller spam ever. Try it. It works.

ouch.

On a more serious note, I think the difference between PE assault grens and wehr assault grens are the medkits.  You can pop medkits anywhere during a fight to increase survivability a little bit more, whereas PE doesn't really have that option. 

[aeroblade56]

Crazy proves a good point. Healing in combat is invaluable  especially for assault units.

[PonySlaystation]

Panzer Elite lack several essential roles that every faction has. The sniper is just one of them, they also lack a suppression weapon, an officer, an engineer. Not to mention decent grenades.

Assault grenadiers are a good unit, they're just not as versatile as other units, maybe if they grenades that weren't terrible in every aspect, they could actually be used to storm emplacements. The reason stormtroopers are much better is because they have both bundled grenades and medkits.

[NightRain]

No one ever said Panzer Elite is a easy faction to play, quite the opposite, it is the hardest faction to master in EIRR environment mostly because there is no tier rush and the gameplay is quite AT heavy regardless of the day.

Panzer Elite is completely incapable of playing with styles similar to Wehr, CW and US, what they lack they try to make up with hit and run tactics and PE is quite brutal if you end up fighting double aggressive PE builds in a 2v2 environment. The higher the player count goes, the lesser the effect will shrink.

The hardest counter to PE is pretty much a ATG and a tank. The two combined create a power PE has difficulties to break through as all of their anti tank assets are vehicles which ATGs excel against. The second is suppression, but suppression should only be a issue if you do not use IHTs. IHT is essencial to PE and without it the poor panzer elite will become terrible. Their infantry is not a grenadier squad, they have volksgrenadier rifles so basically they are 4 man volks squads with grenadier health pool and 1 G43.

Whoever decided to put 5 pool IHTs surely decided to take the lube away from PE.

[Mysthalin]

So what you're saying is that its fine for assault grens to be TOTALLY dependent on infantry halftracks to be worth a damn?

More along the lines of you could eat pizza without the cheese, tomato or meat toppings on it to fill up your stomach - but why you would do that instead of just ordering garlic bread is beyond me. The IHT is a ridiculously efficient force multiplier. Use it as such and enjoy.

[ick312]

if u want to FIX PE: its quite simple.

PE has 3 Problems.
Infantry
speed of enemy vehicles
stickies

To solve the infantry problem:
Assault Grenadiere: improve the fire power of stg44 or give them a break suppression ability without speedboost
G43 PGens: Increase their fire range to 45 (same range as an HMG): the ability to shoot on the enemy before he can gives an edge.
Shrektrooper wouldnt need a change.
^these changes would create highly specialized infantry pool, from which you can choose depending which playstyle u want.


Speed of enemy vehicles:
is in sofar a problem as PE doesnt have an atg and the marger/atght/hetzer just gets hit when circled. uh use shreks well that is problematic cause m10 & hellkitties just crush this infantry while hitting the "long range at".
How to solve this? well here are several options:
- incrase turning speed of the marder/atght/hetzer(hetzer needs it in any case) [would be an option but i dont like it]
- remove crush from m10/hellkitty or lower their speed as soon as they crush

OR [my favorite]

- give the latht a high chance of engine damage, when its giving a rear shoot. This would penalize the straight break through with m10/m18 AND it would reward flanking, if the PE attacks. Also it would justify 5 pop for the LATHT.

Stickies are the death to any mechanized stuff of the PE. Here are also several options:
-increase damage vs LVs (damage 50% of the HT/AC) and take away the crits.
-make it possible to buy an "anti crit repair kit" which only repairs the crit.
-change the crit vs LVs to the same time limited as from latht

PS:
For anyone saying "use IHTs" how much do they cost? 230 MP and thats exactly the issue: u need 7 dead roflemen till this payed of and usually handeld at, atgs or sometimes enough smallarms fire. So if you use the PGrens+IHT u need 13 kills to pay off. So IHT are not usuable to make the assaultgrens/PGrens more effective. (try it you will see)
IHTs are good with shreks in to chase down enemy tanks or to flank them, but any sort of other infantry sux in IHTs. <= BS try  SE Flammenwerfer, yes do it and keep in mind that u 16 kills to pay this off.

[Shabtajus]

reading blue text is killing ma eyes tbh

just sayin'

[nikomas]

- give the latht a high chance of engine damage, when its giving a rear shoot. This would penalize the straight break through with m10/m18 AND it would reward flanking, if the PE attacks. Also it would justify 5 pop for the LATHT.

You know what, I could actually agree with this one.

And yeah, please no colored text, it makes it HARDER to read not easier.

[nikomas]

Anyway, if I'd like anything done to PE it would be...

- Look over the PzGren K98... It's really that terrible
- Look over the 50mmATHT as a munition based AT piece

I don't recall if they have it, already but the only thing I'd think of doing to assault grens would be to give them AB armor, it fits with the assault role.

[Mysthalin]

PS:
For anyone saying "use IHTs" how much do they cost? 230 MP and thats exactly the issue: u need 7 dead roflemen till this payed of and usually handeld at, atgs or sometimes enough smallarms fire. So if you use the PGrens+IHT u need 13 kills to pay off. So IHT are not usuable to make the assaultgrens/PGrens more effective. (try it you will see)
IHTs are good with shreks in to chase down enemy tanks or to flank them, but any sort of other infantry sux in IHTs. <= BS try  SE Flammenwerfer, yes do it and keep in mind that u 16 kills to pay this off.

I've used IHTs enough to even give them codenames based on what they're carrying. Your "cost analysis" would hold some ground if you had remembered riflemen are not the only things that can be killed by an IHT with STG44s, and riflemen are not even the primary target of the Assault Gren IHT. The primary targets are AT guns, which you can kill extremely quickly - and killing just one puts you just one micron short of already paying off the Assault Gren IHT's price (with repairs). Kill another ATG, Mortar, Machinegun or even part of a rifle squad and boom - you've got yourself pay-off.

Don't forget the kill counter does not take into account retreats. Very few people stay in their place after being rushed and instantly suppressed by an IHT. The usual response is to leg it, especially after seeing half the squad die within seconds of being charged like that. Rush into two riflesquads with BARs? Chances are they'll have to retreat within seconds of this ordeal. If they have stickies and kill the IHT - they'll still have to deal with the Assault grens that pop out - and they won't be able to as they will have been pinned by the time the stickies blow. Boom, you just got 400 manpower 280 munitions off the map - a worthy investment considering all you lost was a single IHT. Especially if this saved an ally's panther or other expensive vehicle from getting stickied in the IHT's place.

[kwiatekkek]

ppl tryina play PE like  they play  wehr ... youre  doing it wrong.
the only drawback  to PE atm is the  vehicle pool you can only  field 12xIHT 3xAc and a mortar ht, oh  wait  you can  top it up  with 5 hetzers....seewhutididthar ?

[ick312]

I've used IHTs enough to even give them codenames based on what they're carrying. Your "cost analysis" would hold some ground if you had remembered riflemen are not the only things that can be killed by an IHT with STG44s, and riflemen are not even the primary target of the Assault Gren IHT. The primary targets are AT guns, which you can kill extremely quickly - and killing just one puts you just one micron short of already paying off the Assault Gren IHT's price (with repairs). Kill another ATG, Mortar, Machinegun or even part of a rifle squad and boom - you've got yourself pay-off.

Don't forget the kill counter does not take into account retreats. Very few people stay in their place after being rushed and instantly suppressed by an IHT. The usual response is to leg it, especially after seeing half the squad die within seconds of being charged like that. Rush into two riflesquads with BARs? Chances are they'll have to retreat within seconds of this ordeal. If they have stickies and kill the IHT - they'll still have to deal with the Assault grens that pop out - and they won't be able to as they will have been pinned by the time the stickies blow. Boom, you just got 400 manpower 280 munitions off the map - a worthy investment considering all you lost was a single IHT. Especially if this saved an ally's panther or other expensive vehicle from getting stickied in the IHT's place.

mysth u r invited to play this weekend a game with me and show me how fast they pay off.

[Unkn0wn]

Only thing PE needs imo is 2 - 3 repair uses per kit rather than 1 for all HT variants. The ability to hit and run is severely hampered by our repair system.