From: PE | To: EIRR

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[PonySlaystation]

There's a difference between porting over an identical unit (mirroring) and creating a unit in the same category with different stats and abilities to make up for an essential role (balancing). The CW faction is a good example of this. They are horribly broken in vCOH because they lack essential units like mobile long range AT and a heavy machine gun and to make up for this they needed overpowered strengths. It's a horrible way to balance things. Granted the CW AT gun and HMG could have been a little more interesting in EIR in terms of stats and abilities instead of being so similar to their americans counterparts. But they were units that they needed.

Just like Panzer Elite needs more versatility to be able to do basic things like suppress infantry, counter infantry with grenades or buff infantry with an officer. Doesn't mean they have be identical to other factions counterparts, they can still be within the Panzer Elite doctrine of high mobility and firepower over protection and be different enough to make room for unique gameplay.

[CrazyWR]

Brits need a mobile MG to replace the emplacement, and a mobile ATG to replace the emplacement because EIRR has more AT (anyway, they already had an MG unit and a Mortar unit from the Commando HQ Glider).

PE need a Sniper to counter support weapons which shread them, and a suppression platform to keep back infantry with HHAT, or infantry which is assaulting their infantry.

1) bren mmg
2) firefly
3) no they don't, they have plenty of tools, people just don't like doing anything that doesn't involve running straight at the enemy lines, its like watching 2 rams fighting for supremacy, and it makes me sad, thats why most of the favored maps are so narrow...
4) like an infantry halftrack? or an mg on a scout car? or mines? or a mortar halftrack? or a hotchkiss stuka(even though I hate it)?

PE has plenty of tools, people just don't use them for one reason or another.  Most popular PE excuses include
1) OMG HE HAS AN ATG WHAT DO I DO, IM SO FRAGILE
2) OMG HE HAS A BLOB, I CANT FIGHT IT HEAD TO HEAD WITH MY BLOB
3) a combination-OMG INFANTRY BLOB WITH AT, WHAT NOW


answer a) use indirect fire or flanking or infantry(preferably with incendiary nades)
answer b) use indirect fire, cap around the blob, let it overextend and get beyond support, then attack it from multiple sides and FINISH IT OFF so you don't have to fight it over and over after it heals
answer c) see answer b, except use a higher percentage of your own infantry, since he has proportionally less AI

Too many people play PE like other factions.  Playing PE does not involve holding territory.  I know people in EIR get the shakes when they have to give up territory, but I promise you it'll be ok.  You attack, do some damage, pull back, repair/heal, let them overextend again, kill them, push up a little farther, then give ground when they push again, falling back to the sides/rear and waiting for another opportunity to hit them hard.  At no point should PE players try to fight head to head in a standoff.  PE is too fragile for this for one, and for two, you will almost always have a mobility advantage.  USE IT TO PICK THE GROUND FOR THE FIGHT.  You don't have to fight where the enemy wants, you can fight where you want.

[CrazyWR]

also, giving PE a sniper has made things so much easier, its kind of silly.  Honestly ridiculously unnecessary and IMO makes PE quite OP, but I'm sure I'm in the minority on that.

[CrazyWR]

I actually think its because now PE have an EZ mode solution to remove ATG's, which are their number 1 problem.  Especially when combined with the ROF, it takes hardly any time to shoot 2 men(3 for 17pdrs) and then walk back while the rest of the force moves up.

[CrazyWR]

wehr aren't nearly as reliant on vehicles though, and so aren't as vulnerable to atgs.  An ATG wall was previously extremely tough for PE to defeat without great coordination or failure from the allies.  Now things are much much much easier.

[NightRain]

Fallschrimjäger Sniper has a counter that PE can not handle. British Brengun carrier with a recon unit. PE does not have a HT where you can jump into to get cover from recon snipe. If brengun carrier charges onward your chances are that the sniper is pretty much dead.

We can agree that similar problem lays with Mando Sniper, except Mando Sniper has LoS and 2 men aside of 1.

Either way. PE is weak if you have no synergy with your team mates. WM likes to sit and camp unless you play with aggressive WM players. Aggressive WM and PE make a deadly pair with fast response Marders, a suppression unit of MG and panzerfaust volksgrenadiers. StuGs with keep it moving all that good stuff.

[CrazyWR]

staghound canister shot then.  and firefly's require precision, but are very hard to kill if used right.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Lol Alpha I'd love to see you try to keep a FJ sniper alive (or even play PE as it currently is and achieve any kind of success with them).

A lot of the things you're talking about here would have absolutely zero effectiveness in an actual game situation or are just flat out not true. You're just theory crafting based on what you think might happen.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Try keeping your FJ sniper alive against a rush of 2-3 jeeps with only FJs to protect it. You will fail spectacularly. It's not an intelligent way to defend your sniper.

Also, the number one counter to snipers from the British arsenal are recons in a bren (which you'd need 3+ fausts to destroy before your sniper got killed) or a single cromwell/stag which not even a single marder can kill before the sniper is dead. Ask the guys who actually use FJ snipers (unlike you who doesn't and yet is still trying to speak like an authority on them) like Ray, Myst, Crazy etc. what kills more of their snipers: LV's/cromwells with flank speed and other snipers, or jeeps.

Also, the LATHT is very effective against BGCRecon (fact).

Let's play a game. You get an LATHT and a FJ sniper that has just fired and I get a recon tommy squad in a bren. Let's see how many times, out of 5, you manage to kill that bren before your sniper dies.

Here's a hint: you won't win even 20% of the time. The LAHT is very effective against brens, but cannot kill them fast enough to save a FJ sniper from recon tommies in that bren. The Bren has more than enough health to get into detect range and pop the killing shot.

The fact of the matter is you're not an effective PE player and you don't even play PE as they currently exist in the mod. Those realities alone should discourage you from making suggestions about how they need to be improved or modified.

Stop theory crafting about things you don't understand and arguing with people who actually use the units in question. You don't have a leg to stand on arguing against a guy like Crazy who consistently and regularly has used the units he's talking about in their current state.

[tank130]

Let's get back on topic please. We do not need a bunch of theory crafting - from anyone

And Tig, if you respond to this post I am going to reach inside this screen and bitch slap you......

[TheWindCriesMary]

For one the LATHT has Treadbreak, so it doesn't matter that it takes a few shots, the BCRecon won't be able to move very far or fast.

This is just wrong. Wrong. Wrong. wrong.

A) it's theorycrafting.
B) It's shitty theorycrafting that is in direct contradiction to what would actually happen. You're arguing with people who actually play PE and know how they function in the current in-game environment. Stop making up nonsense because you're actively harming a valuable conversation about PE that is being conducted by people who play PE and can base their arguments on in-game experience. (which is the only experience that matters).


PE does not need to be mirrored to other factions. Instead, what makes them unique (mobility, lack of support weapon immobility and hit and run tactics needs to be expanded further.

The reason PE is so often looked on as the most difficult and least-played faction in EIR is because for the past few years it has been trapped in mediocre half-compromise land. Instead of being made to be really good in a specific niche, it has been flattened to be mediocre in everything which is unfortunate.

[Groundfire]

PE does not need to be mirrored to other factions. Instead, what makes them unique (mobility, lack of support weapon immobility and hit and run tactics needs to be expanded further.

The reason PE is so often looked on as the most difficult and least-played faction in EIR is because for the past few years it has been trapped in mediocre half-compromise land. Instead of being made to be really good in a specific niche, it has been flattened to be mediocre in everything which is unfortunate.

If you have suggestions, the SDT would really like to hear them. Send me a PM about it, wind.

[TheWindCriesMary]

If you have suggestions, the SDT would really like to hear them. Send me a PM about it, wind.

Roger that, will do.

[AmPM]

Agree with Wind completely.

PE should be designed to focus and enhance it's core features and strengths. NOT to make it Wehr Mk2 like they did to the poor Brits.

Pool values are an issue for PE currently, it prevents them from being able to utilize their support options and signature style at the same time. This is my cause for this cycle, fix PE.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Definitely a good point about pool values.

Pool values should be done away with completely in the PE doctrine -- at least as they pertain to vehicles, support and infantry. If there is a need to stop people from getting 2 jagpanthers that's reasonable.

Right now though, vehicle and support pool is strangling PE innovation and keeping them in the "poor man's jack of all trades" boat.


(coincidentally I think the pool system in general should be done away with but that's a more radical opinion that I'll save for another day)

[CrazyWR]

gotta agree with AMPM and Wind.  Forcing PE to get a little bit of everything is based in good intentions, but ultimately really just means they come up short in all areas.  Its really quite frustrating.  

EDIT: This is not to say it is impossible to build an effective PE company at the moment, it certainly is.  However, it would be much easier to build an effective PE company without pool restrictions.  I also believe that PE effectiveness would rise without pool limits.

[Jodomar]

I started to write a novel and figured I would go back to keeping it simple. So I totally agree with the current pool system being very limiting to PE. I also remember bring this point up a few times in the past, but I guess it fell on deaf ears. Should definitely be looked into as a solution to make PE an always viable option ( I say viable because and all PE 3v3 is almost like admitting defeat before the battle even happens) On a side note a very good and well organized PE can still win. Just you don't have to be as organized or competent to pull the same off with any other faction and that's the problem.

[CrazyWR]

THATS WHAT HE JUST SAID.

[TheWindCriesMary]

THATS WHAT HE JUST SAID.

Holy shit it's starting to get really annoying.

I think Alpha really just needs the validation of saying something she thinks is helpful, like those annoying idiot kids in class who answer a question from the teacher in a way that just reuses all the same words but adds absolutely zero new or original information. Even if she has no fucking idea what she is talking about or is completely just borrowing other people's statements she'll still say something just because.

One of the worst is when this happens:

Random guy: I think apples are delicious and healthy because they have x, y and z.

Alpha: True, but it's also important to keep in mind that they're good tasting and the added bonus of y and z doesn't hurt either! lol! ^^

[MissileJoe]

To sum it up:
Noone is interested in reading Tigs online diary.