[CW] M7 Priest vs 25Pdr

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[nikomas]

Okay then, lets compare the priest and the hummel, how do these units compare at base without doctrines and then with doctrines?

As far as I can tell we mostly seem to agree that it is the very cheap creeping barrage that breaks the 25pdr, correct?

[NightRain]

Okay then, lets compare the priest and the hummel, how do these units compare at base without doctrines and then with doctrines?

As far as I can tell we mostly seem to agree that it is the very cheap creeping barrage that breaks the 25pdr, correct?

It is not entirely the creeping barrage either that makes the two units apart. It is their cost. Really, who would buy 1 Barrel when you get 3 barrels for nearly the same price?

[nikomas]

It is not entirely the creeping barrage either that makes the two units apart. It is their cost. Really, who would buy 1 Barrel when you get 3 barrels for nearly the same price?

So even then, you'd never buy a priest over a 25pdr without any buffs attached to it? If we reduce the priest, doesn't that make the hummer overpriced by comparison? If we increase the cost of the 25pdrs to around 200, would it be worth it without the doctrines?

Then agian, that last point is a little moot as we have a lot of things that are not worth it without doctrines... like the hummel/priest.

[Mysthalin]

The Priest and the Hummel are both rather.. meh. The Hotchkiss Stuka, the regular Stuka(even before the buff), the Howitzer, the nebelwerfer and the 25 pdr are all superior by far if not by anything else then at least pop and cost efficiency - and I wouldn't really say that any of them are overpowered (the 25 pdr in RCA SHOULD by all means be 160 FU and 8 popcap, like the US howitzer, merely because the T1 supercharge which literally EVERY player can get will be picked by an RCA player).

They do their job, and they manage to do it without breaking the back of the entire team. The Hummel and the Priest - although they can deal some decent damage - cost too much in both popcap and resources to be worth it. They're 10 popcap each, which is 10 popcap that is not being used in a P4 IST, or a pair of 6 pounders which could do wonders for holding the line - and their cost makes sure that sending down a pair of pumas/stags/stuarts/greyhounds/upgun hotches will always be worth the trouble for the enemy. In fact, in terms of fuel cost - you can do it efficiently twice (in case the first attack fails) - leaving a lot of elasticity in terms of loss when the enemy is dealing with the unit. And, unlike say - the sniper, a single assault to the back of the line is far more likely to remove this high-cost unit from the game on the first attempt.

I'd say two changes are in order:

1) A reduction in fuel costs for both the hummel and the Priest (perhaps a change to 9 popcap also being warranted). The hummel being the more prominent offender as it is in the most fuel-dependent faction by far. The Priest because it competes against far more efficient artilery units in the same doctrine.

2) An increase in RCA 25 pdr cost to 160 FU and popcap set to 8 (in line with infantry Howitzer). For consistency with other doctrines - change the Supercharge T1 to something else like +5% acc to infantry or whatever else is normal for a T1, while just applying the Supercharge as a base to the RCA 25 pdr in particular.


If you increase 25 pdrs to 200 fuel all you'll have is an artilery unit that is not worth purchasing. It won't make the priest any better - it will still be far too expensive and too pop-intensive to be worth fielding. Brits will just live without arty (using the FOO captain as a stop-gap) and RCA will be the "let's go top T4 with rifle-nades" doctrine, with no other reasonable choices available to them.. Maybe someone will go for the priest entirely for the lulz once every full moon, but beyond that? fuck it.

[PonySlaystation]

Priest with creeping and barrage and Hummel with incendiary barrage are very powerful artillery pieces. The problem with the Priest is that you have the much cheaper 25pdr. The problem with the Hummel is, sure you have great indirect fire support but you don't really have any other good units because SE is so lacking.

[Marlboroman]

Priest with creeping and barrage and Hummel with incendiary barrage are very powerful artillery pieces. The problem with the Priest is that you have the much cheaper 25pdr. The problem with the Hummel is, sure you have great indirect fire support but you don't really have any other good units because SE is so lacking.

SE is lacking? Heal cars, 4man mgs, flammen assault nade pgrens, SE is my favorite PE doctrine.

[Smokaz]

SE is strong doctrine, just not in AT department. The problem is rather whether or not other doctrines are too good at AI/AT combined and not specialized enough..

[PonySlaystation]

SE is lacking? Heal cars, 4man mgs, flammen assault nade pgrens, SE is my favorite PE doctrine.

Doesn't sound very impressive. My point however is that the Hummel is not a bad unit, people avoid SE for other reasons.

[AmPM]

SE is strong doctrine, just not in AT department. The problem is rather whether or not other doctrines are too good at AI/AT combined and not specialized enough..

This is the biggest problem in EIRR right now.

AB weak to LV's and AI infantry? Lets give them AP Quads and AI loadouts.

Tank Reapers should totally get AT bonuses to an Infantry Support tank so it can dual role! (Should be TD/ATG/Zook bonuses).

RCA...LETS DO EVERYTHING!

It's just silly that you cover up weaknesses instead of focusing on strengths. Nobody would mind terrifyingly effective AB if they relied on hit and run with grenades, satchels and RR's; but were incredibly weak in prolonged infantry engagements and vs light vehicles.

Instead of focusing, we are diffusing doctrines to the point that outside a few special units they all feel the same.

[aeroblade56]

Doesn't sound very impressive. My point however is that the Hummel is not a bad unit, people avoid SE for other reasons.

when i play ab i do ever challenge a SE player in combat. dat feels when a ist comes rolling around a corner.

[CrazyWR]

This is the biggest problem in EIRR right now.

AB weak to LV's and AI infantry? Lets give them AP Quads and AI loadouts.

Tank Reapers should totally get AT bonuses to an Infantry Support tank so it can dual role! (Should be TD/ATG/Zook bonuses).

RCA...LETS DO EVERYTHING!

It's just silly that you cover up weaknesses instead of focusing on strengths. Nobody would mind terrifyingly effective AB if they relied on hit and run with grenades, satchels and RR's; but were incredibly weak in prolonged infantry engagements and vs light vehicles.

Instead of focusing, we are diffusing doctrines to the point that outside a few special units they all feel the same.

this times a million

[CrazyWR]

Doesn't sound very impressive. My point however is that the Hummel is not a bad unit, people avoid SE for other reasons.

SE is probably the strongest PE doctrine...

[PonySlaystation]

Assault Flammenwerfers cost almost the same as Oak Leave KCH, yet they lose against most infantry, they're not even useful at storming buildings because they can never make up for their high cost. Mines generally only work against inexperienced players and those who are not prepared to face it. The four man MG42 team is offset by it's high price. Panzer Pioneers are just recrew with mines.

Aside from the Hummel, all unlocks are extremely underwhelming.

The SE doctrine specializations generally only buff three units: the IST, the Hummel and the Hotch stuka. Making them powerful units, but the rest useless.

Top T4, much weaker than most infantry doctrines, infantry, terror and luft etc and you miss out on the essential hummel incendiary barrage, you're better off picking a real infantry doctrine. Mid T4, the improvements or buffs are so small and meager that they're aren't even noticeable in game, aside from the Mortar HT, but even then there is no improvement in it's killing power. Bot T4, placing mines everywhere is not effective in a competitive environment, it's on the list of the easiest things to counter in the game if you are prepared. A few enemy minesweepers and you have effectively lost several hundred munitions.

I think there are good reasons why people avoid SE, specifically, I have never seen a SE player do well without a Hummel.

[Mysthalin]

Funny, I've never seen an SE player with a Hummel do well (well, not ever since flame rounds stopped lasting 4 minutes and killing a full health ranger squad in 2 seconds with the DOT).