[Luftwaffe] Heavy Support

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[EliteGren]

Why would you put the Wirbelwind into a T3? The damn unit is hardly even worth a T1 in itself. Barely anyone used it when it was in a T2, what the recent doctrine change to T3 did was completely remove the Wirbelwind from the game.

It either needs:
- a buff to its stats
- bring it back to the T2 Light Support and put Flakvierling back into T3. Or buff the Pak 36 so it actually does something and put it into the T3.

IMHO this change is really messed up, pairing the Wirbel with a flak is also a bad idea since when you got access to 88s you're going to want to spend a whole bunch of fuel on those so you get your doctrine points worth. A 140 fuel (on PE!) weak, clumsy supression platform is the last thing you want to have then.

[NightRain]

I used to spam these things and I was never really impressed by them really. Its killing potential is weak even if it can suppress somewhat decently. The best thing Wirblewind can be used for is Anti-Air and it actually excels at it. That is the only thing it is capable of doing. If enemy has even handheld AT it will most likely loose the engagment unless it has a spotter. It is not a good unit.

[skaffa]

Its too fragile, too much pop and not fast enough.

[Smokaz]

Wirbel the base unit needs a buff. I would say it needs to have a good range advantage  oninfantry AT which is too good against it. Its supposed to counter infantry but your not going to counter infantry with AT if theres fireup or more than one squad.

[NightRain]

Wirble does have 45 range so...it has the range. Its killing ability is weak and by weak I mean shit.

[Mysthalin]

The reason the wirble is shit is because it does two things - but both of them in very round-about ways.

It DOES have killing power, so long as it does not suppress (then it has effectively none due to terrible modifiers vs suppressed inf). This wouldn't be an issue, but it suppresses ridiculously fast... But only one unit at a time due to basically no area of effect in the suppression. Cooldown on the unit being what it is - it really can only hope to suppress one unit out of two before they get to point blank range - at that point a 3 popcap scout car HMG would have done a better job of actually suppressing stuff, and there's a pleuthora of other cheap units that would have killed the advancing squads of infantry.

I've argued this before - the wirblewind needs to become specialised in what it does. This could happen through a nerf of neutering it's suppression (so the units it fires at don't become suppressed and instead just die as they're meant to to the wirblewind). Or it could happen through a buff of giving the wirblewind a higher area of effect on the suppression, so it doesn't just suppress one squad at a time - making it not unlike a truly mobile HMG.

Or we could just give it the Crusader AA gun. That thing is fun.

[NightRain]

I can imagine Wirblewind with 4 Puma guns spraying at enemy TAM TAM TAM TAM TAM TAM TAM TAM TAM TAM TAM TAM. The possible rape.

I'd vote this unit to become a specialized infantry killer. Who cares if it can suppress if it can actually kill units? Or give it Suppression fire and reduce its base suppression. Thus this unit can perform 2 roles for 140 fuel and 10 pop. In short it is a HMG of 3 pop and AC 6 pop.

[terrapinsrock]

Yea, I'd second Myst's motion.

I tried to spam Whirbels but I got so disappointed after one game that I just deleted the coy.

A Whirbel as a T1/T2 and with more killing power would be AWESOME.

[CrazyWR]

giving it IST armor would be nice too...as it is virtually everything penetrates it...

[TheIcelandicManiac]

one thing that actually made the wirlbe quite resiliant was the mid t4 when it gave it 33% more HP, noidea why it was removed but its stupid as fuck that they did.

[EliteGren]

Another unclear thing: Why the F is it 140 fuel? Totally ridiculous price tag, feels more like a 70 fuel vehicle. This totally rips PE apart with their dependancy on fuel. It's 140 fuel for a support vehicle that needs other units to kill it's targets..