heavy Tanks discussion

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[ick312]

Ok guys,

here is the place to discuss the tiger/pershing/KT changes.

My opinion:
The Tiger had a hard time in the past, cause of RRs who were ripping it into pieces. Thinking back of playing with the tiger, that was the only real problem. It required tactics and combined arms to get your 60/2/2 kills and pulling the beast off gave you the statisfaction that you really had an incredible match behind you.

Actually there were only 2 things the tiger had to fear and the pershing not: RRs & Stickies
Well however since Fire up is bound to vet 1 are RRs stopable! and the allie player tries to save his vet and doesnt sacrefice tons of unvetted RRs to kill your baby on retreat are RRs no longer an issue.
The Sticky: Well can be dogded but  cripples for the rest of the game... Usually your opponent needs to sacrefice an HT + Riflemen Sqaud to cripple you. So not very cheap.

On the other side:
The Pershing has to fear Tellermines. very nasty but a doctrine unlock
The 88 and nashorn. Overwhelmable, with tactics if your allies support you

So from my point of view: was the pershing fine. And the tiger aswell except facing RRs and their fire up suicide.
So since this problem is solved: should both tanks go back to their old stats. Tiger should MAYBE have 5% more accuracy vs infantry since he has to kill 6 man and both should have 40 range

On the KT:
I am Pretty happy with that thing MAYBE it should get 0,75 accuracy vs infantry (could be thought about...).  but all in all its now really by far better and even vet-able

[Shabtajus]

tankedit: unrelated remarks removed

[XIIcorps]

Volks slow mines work fine vs pershing too dont forget that ick.

Also stop saying the tiger has to kill 6 men opposed to 4-5 for the pershing.

The hp of each individual makes up the balance.  Time and time again we tell you this.

[ick312]

slow mines are not really a danger to pershing. listed things that scared the shit out of the pershing/tiger and which arent available for the opponent team.

The HP of each individual makes the difference? Dude you just cant be serious about this!
tiger/persh deal 137 damage. Which man survives this? HP doesnt matter when it comes to tank snipe

[XIIcorps]

Stop expecting to kill a heavy in a single engagement, you really need only whittle them down and reduce their field presence vs cost.

Certain units with certain hp pools and armor types are more likely to survive splash from Tiger/persh.

Volks and riflemens are certain death but rangers/grens/storms etc are survivable

[narref]

What? Just stop trying to deny that facing bigger squad sizes is a significant factor that should be taken into account for balance....

No infantry unit survives a direct hit from a tank not even KCH, so yes squad sizes matter.

Grens and storms have more hp per soldier... true
Does that mean they have better survivavility vs heavy tank hits?... false

But if you want to get "technical" just think 1 second about it.
Smaller squad size with higher HP means that there's more "health density", there's more (HP/m^2) in a gren squad than in a rifle squad.

That means that for each shot there's more HP exposed to the AoE dmg of the heavy tank, so yes it's easier to kill a 4man than a 6man squad.

[ick312]

Except of course when you look at the splash damage dealt to the guys around the one who is snipped (3 shots average to kill either squad).

ALPHA SHUT YOUR BLOODY MOUTH!!!

you know that both tanks have 5 & 5,3 AoE and the same Damage distribution in those AoE.
You know that it deals on 13 damage on the outside of AoE. Just play the tiger!

Stop acting like you are smart and consider things that all others are too stupid to think about.

[nikomas]

ffs, the stats ignorance in this thread. First off all KCH CAN and WILL surivive 10000+ damage shots due to heroic crits, it's a 50/50. How does people not know this by now!?


As for splash, health does matter.

Pershing does 0.35 damage at medium range splash (1 - 2.5m) and 0.2 damage at long range splash (2.51 - 5m), the expected average damage from the zones would be 48.125/27.5. Tiger does 0.35 damage at medium range splash (0.5 - 2m) and 0.2 damage at long range splash (2.01 - 5.3m), that would make the expected damage zones the same as the pershing in terms of damage.

80 - 48.125 = Living Grenadier
80 - 27.5    = Flesh Wound

55 - 48.125 = Will die from a sneeze
55 - 27.5 = Pretty much equivelent to what happens to a greandier at MEDIUM splash.

Granted, why the pershing has (slightly) better splash is anyones guess but it's not enough to make any significant difference when it comes to killing grens over what the tiger does to rifles.

[rolcsika0128]

ALPHA SHUT YOUR BLOODY MOUTH!!!

you know that both tanks have 5 & 5,3 AoE and the same Damage distribution in those AoE.
You know that it deals on 13 damage on the outside of AoE. Just play the tiger!

Stop acting like you are smart and consider things that all others are too stupid to think about.

Lol, Tank was right about this mod turning ppl into asshats. You are one of the finest examples of it ick. I mean seriously? "all others are too stupid to think about" ..   that inferiority complex makes me wanna laugh  you remind me of a german word "besserwisser"

Smaller squad size with higher HP means that there's more "health density", there's more (HP/m^2) in a gren squad than in a rifle squad.

That means that for each shot there's more HP exposed to the AoE dmg of the heavy tank, so yes it's easier to kill a 4man than a 6man squad.

Not necessarily true. It depends on the HP and the splash dmg.

Let's say a tank has a splash dmg of 'Y'. It's true, that bigger-sized squads with less individual hp have smaller "health density", but due to the lower hp, 'Y' splash is more likely to kill an individual soldier. In the other case, a high-hp unit is more likely to survive 'Y', and can be healed. ( the poor guy who is targeted by the tank shell will eventually die anyway)

I'm not saying this applies to every case, but it's worth considering.

[XIIcorps]

Lol, Tank was right about this mod turning ppl into asshats. You are one of the finest examples of it ick. I mean seriously? "all others are too stupid to think about" ..   that inferiority complex makes me wanna laugh  you remind me of a german word "besserwisser"
Not necessarily true. It depends on the HP and the splash dmg.

Let's say a tank has a splash dmg of 'Y'. It's true, that bigger-sized squads with less individual hp have smaller "health density", but due to the lower hp, 'Y' splash is more likely to kill an individual soldier. In the other case, a high-hp unit is more likely to survive 'Y', and can be healed. ( the poor guy who is targeted by the tank shell will eventually die anyway)

I'm not saying this applies to every case, but it's worth considering.

Squads of 5-6 men tend to cluster a lot more then squads of 4 men.
All to do with the coh cover and coverseeking AI

[ick312]

Dear Trollcsika,

maybe there are people who know what they are talking about and maybe you will also belong to these guys after this:

Tiger AoE:
short    0,5
medium 2  
long      5,3

Pershing AoE:
short    1  
medium 2,5    
long      5

Both have the same damage distribution of 100%/35%/20%
=> Pershing has the better AoE damage

do you understand?

The Pershing has a bigger 100% damage area then the tiger and also a bigger 35% damage area then the tiger. So its more likely for the pershing ti kill 2 guys with 1 shot.
While the tiger will more likely only kill 1 guy and damage the others enourmsly however they stay alive and you need a second shot to get the same yield as the pershing (reducing the sqaud by 50%)
So to summerize: The Both have the ability to kill with 2x medium AoE But the Pershing has the better AoE.



on the other thing: Yes you are right this community makes you far more aggressive, and someday you are very close to those fuckers.
However i always hated tards, no matter where: Boxing, studiying, Eirr who are not practicing it and Scream in every discussion when the experienced ones were talkin. AND then additionally talking trash

[tank130]

Knock it off with the personal attacks or we will be removing people from the balance forums.

[ick312]

A Rifleman will die from the splash of two short range shots, whereas a Grenadier will die from the splash of three short range, or two medium range shots. Riflemen clump up more than Grenadiers due to the games mechanics.

not even KT is doing that.(KT got better AoE values then Tiger). And if you would play the game then you would know it.

@Tank: ok u can ban me now

[mrshark]

Stop expecting to kill a heavy in a single engagement, you really need only whittle them down and reduce their field presence vs cost.

Certain units with certain hp pools and armor types are more likely to survive splash from Tiger/persh.

Volks and riflemens are certain death but rangers/grens/storms etc are survivable

ummm, yeah.
What he said.

[Bear]

I am not a scripting value crack but I know only a M26 eat my inf and a Tiger do a long time waiting before he shoot, also is a M26 a bigger hazard for my walking units and by the same reason for my driving untis to.

[XIIcorps]

I am not a scripted value crack but I know only a M26 eat my inf and a Tiger do a long time waiting before he shoot, also is a M26 a bigger hazard for my walking units and by the same reason for my driving untis to.

translated this with every language in googles arsenal, still couldnt make sense of it.

[Bear]

this is not created about a translater

[Bear]

this is not created about a translater

In German I would say:
Ich bin kein Crack der geskripteten Werte aber ich weiß, ein M26 frisst meine inf und ein Tiger wartet lange bevor er schießt, also ist ein M26 eine größere Gefahr für meine Fußsoldaten und aus dem selben Grund für meine mobilen Einheiten.

Google Translater make from this:
I'm not cracking the scripted values ​​but I know a M26 eats my inf and a tiger waiting long before he shoots, so a M26 is a greater threat to my foot soldiers and for the same reason for my mobile units.

Maybe its helpfully for you?

[NightRain]

Basically what bear is saying.

He does not know the statistics of units, but he does know that M26 eats his infantry and tigers have a long aiming time before it shoots infantry. Thus he concludes that M26 is a greater threat to his infantry and to his more mobile units.

Honestly, the two tanks have it pretty much equal. Aiming time, reload, everything.