dear tank

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[ick312]

dear tank,

i left the retardation of this community, but since i like you, i want to give you a thinking discussion about your idea of "ingame tiers". I have not wasted my time with stupid posts who commented your idea. So i might be not up to date.
And i apologize for my poor english, i hope you will still understand my perspective.

Discussion:
Basis:
You brought up that certain units are ONLY available after a certain time has passed or population has been gathered.

con:
It limits the options of strategies drastically! As an example: A Pershing or 4 Man KCH start wouldnt be possible anymore. The freedom to experiment and do unpredictable things, and receiving an advantage from that or failing  brutally is an essential part of fun.

pro:
On the other side, it would be possible to predict certain steps of your opponent and therefore easier to counter. This would also lower the learning curve.

balance idea
On your idea that balance could be achieved by tiers, the game wont be balancing because you get something later! A good game is at anytime balanced! Also in Vcoh. The units MUST be balanced by stats and prices! An OP unit stays OP no matter in which time frame you receive it. Units who cut away theirs counter, like brummbär are op because their stats numbers are out of line with other units

conclusion
But i am convinced that it would lower an essential fun factor  in eirr - experimenting! New players are having a hard time anyway since "micro" and "timing" are on a high demand in eirr. Also i think that not many new players will come. To me it looks my promising to activate old players, by fixing issues, then attracting new players. Old players will advertise the product by their word of mouth.
 
Another Idea.
-No population!
-3-5 Phases (Scouting, engagement, Combat, Escalation, last reserves)
-Each 5-10 min 1 Phase passes
The player builds callins (25 pop) for the phases, With the entering into a new phase his phase-callin enters the battlefield.

pros:
-balancing could ignore prices (only popcost matter)
-flexibility is maintained ( you want to start with a panther so do it)
-Spam builds that simply push you off the field, are stopped since their reinforcement arrives only in a timeframe. Rushing your units in leaves your allies basically only back, doomed to be overrunned

cons:
-blobbing would be drastically reduced since losses can only be replaced every 5-10 min
-Inability to adjust to certain battlefield situations. As an example the enemy is only using Infantry, so a part of your callin with AT is wasted

Slightly different
- basing the callins NOT on time but on unitpopulation on the field.
So your opponent wins the first round and you have 10 - 15 pop left. You get your next callin, now you have more pop and can start a counter attack, he losses some and gets his next callin.

well good luck with eirr2

forgot to mention, except tank and few others, i wont read your bullshit comments, so spare your time

[tank130]

balance idea
On your idea that balance could be achieved by tiers, the game wont be balancing because you get something later! A good game is at anytime balanced! Also in Vcoh. The units MUST be balanced by stats and prices! An OP unit stays OP no matter in which time frame you receive it. Units who cut away theirs counter, like brummbär are op because their stats numbers are out of line with other units

In vCoh, all tier 1 units are still available when you can get tier 4 units. In most cases you will not want them, but they are still available, so I do not see how you think that is a problem.

I completely agree that an OP unit is still OP regardless of time frame, but that is not what I was referring to.
A better example may be medium tanks. They have essentially become useless because higher tier tanks work better; or AT assets have been buffed to contend with the larger number of vehicles in the game.

I do not want to get into an argument over every little unit and theory craft the fuck out of this topic.

vCoh is a tier based game that is well balanced. In vCoh you know your opponent is teching to the next tier, but you still don't know exactly what he is going to throw at you. If you get some recon into his base you will certainly have a much better idea, but still a little bit of a guess.

Convert that to EiR and you can not recon their base building to know whats next. You will have no idea if they are going to send out heavy tanks or field a shit ton of AT to counter the heavies they think you are going to send.
Hell, they could say fuck it to heavies and instead option to purchase all LV's for that company.

The only limit it would be putting on the game is you could not field tier 4 units at tier one etc. You may find that boring and I respect that.

I find it boring as fuck when people start with a heavy tank. Same old shit time after time........ the whole game has turned into a boring spam vehicles meta. I would much rather see the game progress through tiers of different units and composition. The meta shifting in each game so to speak.

Eir used to be a higher skilled player game. Now its just the same old boring shit of run around with vehicles.......bah. Just boring mindless play to be honest.

[ick312]

The only limit it would be putting on the game is you could not field tier 4 units at tier one etc. You may find that boring and I respect that.

ty

I find it boring as fuck when people start with a heavy tank. Same old shit time after time........ the whole game has turned into a boring spam vehicles meta. I would much rather see the game progress through tiers of different units and composition. The meta shifting in each game so to speak.

Eir used to be a higher skilled player game. Now its just the same old boring shit of run around with vehicles.......bah. Just boring mindless play to be honest.

well you took the words right out of my mouth and its the reason why you havent seen my lately.

[ick312]

In vCoh, all tier 1 units are still available when you can get tier 4 units. In most cases you will not want them, but they are still available, so I do not see how you think that is a problem.

I completely agree that an OP unit is still OP regardless of time frame, but that is not what I was referring to.
A better example may be medium tanks. They have essentially become useless because higher tier tanks work better; or AT assets have been buffed to contend with the larger number of vehicles in the game.

naja,
the ressources force you to chose a weaker tank, which is the reason, why you still use volksgrenadiere to recrew, grenadier schrecks as handheld AT. You wont use KCH to recrew, and using KCH panzerfaust as main handheld AT is too expensive in the long run, so you use Grens with schrecks

[tank130]

Sorry ick, I do not see your point in your last post.

Obviously you will usually need lower tier, cheap units for utilitarian reasons.

On your idea that balance could be achieved by tiers, the game wont be balancing because you get something later!

I never said balance would be achieved because of tiers. What I said is balance would be easier. You would be balancing units that were originally designed to battle in their tiers.

We tend to buff or nerf units because of the environment they are used in, but they are being used (arguably) in the wrong environment.
We have tier 4 units being used at the same time as tier 1, so we have to nerf or buff one or the other to remain viable.

Now we are finally throwing vCoH stats out the window because it's obvious the system does not work in our environment. Sounds good on the surface, but it means altering a vast number of stats and all the vet and doctrines that go with it.
If we ever do mod CoH2 it means basically erasing all their stats and starting over again as well.

If we could build an environment that had a tier system similar to the original game, then balance would be a hell of a lot easier and would most certainly be completed in a much shorter time period. Relic/Sega is already doing all the work to create balance (work in progress) why do we want to erase all that and start over?

[ick312]

I never said balance would be achieved because of tiers. What I said is balance would be easier. You would be balancing units that were originally designed to battle in their tiers.

ok then i got that wrong.

On your argumentation: Yeah it makes sense what you say there.

Sorry ick, I do not see your point in your last post.

i tried to argue that the reason why you choose the "bad" units  for a certain job was the price.