Trapmakers Doctrinal drafts.

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[Hobomancer]

I'll be dumping my drafts here as i finish them, I have plans for finishing drafts for wehrmarcht right now, After that i will start on panzer elite, Then we'll see if i decide to do allies aswell, Without any further adieu here they are.

Wehrmacht.

Jaeger Doctrine (Wehr infantry)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YTKQ5TMGPYu_PNrU5bThQxMgYW2YQwLJ7r3frkaKoDM/pubhtml

PanzerKrieg Doctrine (Wehr armour)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mVkfaDbIqSq0O3bauPEkIFms-BKWVOT8eG9J7hhaQPY/pubhtml

Panzer-Aufklarungs Doctrine (Wehr mechanized)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17J1GEJK__B7_GqmRGA4RZiP9ZJ0eK6F0xKL0Ntr3EdE/pubhtml

Panzer elite.

Eastern Front Infantry Doctrine (PE Infantry)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11q2bQMb1iK180H6UQ9jKPtzbjT8ocl-qPam9MG-i4Ts/pubhtml
Next doctrine scheduled to be put up is Panzer Elite Armor.

[tank130]

We would prefer to see only one unit unlocked at a time, not multiple in one selection.

[Hobomancer]

We would prefer to see only one unit unlocked at a time, not multiple in one selection.

Then you're going to end up with a very big number of units that are not being used at all, As is with the narrowing focus of the doctrines its hard enough to fit them all in even if you use 2x units a slot for some units, What about luftwaffe? that one has six total doctrinal units atm, Same for airborne, And those airborne units arent stuff that fit into other doctrines.

[GrayWolf]

I needs some balancing, like giving KCH 1xLMG and 2xG43s while you also go for the tracer rounds. It's gonna be worse if you go for GBJ (gebirgs) with ambush LMG.

Shorter fuse on the nade also looks kinda... unbalanced.

Doctrine looks fine though, just some pro balance tweaking and it will be playable.

[Hobomancer]

Original post updated with Panzerkrieg, Forgot to mention that numbers are subject to change as balance dictates.

[tank130]

I needs some balancing, like giving KCH 1xLMG and 2xG43s while you also go for the tracer rounds. It's gonna be worse if you go for GBJ (gebirgs) with ambush LMG.

Shorter fuse on the nade also looks kinda... unbalanced.

Doctrine looks fine though, just some pro balance tweaking and it will be playable.

How can you claim it is unbalanced when no cost has been applied? What if it cost 500 Mu, would it be OP then?
Of course not: So for now anything is possible, it is simply a matter of apply the appropriate cost.

That said, it if costs 500Mu, no one is going to choose it, so we hope people use a little common sense when creating these abilities.

[Hobomancer]

How can you claim it is unbalanced when no cost has been applied? What if it cost 500 Mu, would it be OP then?
Of course not: So for now anything is possible, it is simply a matter of apply the appropriate cost.

That said, it if costs 500Mu, no one is going to choose it, so we hope people use a little common sense when creating these abilities.

]

The long range kch thing is supposed to be a free upgrade, Its a tradeoff, You loose a lot of your dps potential by doing this, And make your KCH more vulnerable against dedicated assault infantry but you gain effectiveness in long and mid range, Its also supposed to be free because you pay an insane amount of munitions for kch, I assume this is since they are armed with mp44's and since they are replaced with the upgrade i thought an lmg and 2 g43's were roughly equal to the cost.

[tank130]

Then you're going to end up with a very big number of units that are not being used at all, As is with the narrowing focus of the doctrines its hard enough to fit them all in even if you use 2x units a slot for some units, What about luftwaffe? that one has six total doctrinal units atm, Same for airborne, And those airborne units arent stuff that fit into other doctrines.

I don't think Airborne needs multiple unlocks. If you unlock airborne, you should be able to upgrade your Battalion units to airborne units. For example, you select a support unit and upgrade it to airborne support unit. The cost of the upgrade will be the same as the current cost.

[tank130]

]

The long range kch thing is supposed to be a free upgrade, Its a tradeoff, You loose a lot of your dps potential by doing this, And make your KCH more vulnerable against dedicated assault infantry but you gain effectiveness in long and mid range, Its also supposed to be free because you pay an insane amount of munitions for kch, I assume this is since they are armed with mp44's and since they are replaced with the upgrade i thought an lmg and 2 g43's were roughly equal to the cost.

I would suggest any design you do be based on selections having a cost. There may be situations where you have a trade off as you have stated, but the over new doctrine design will associate a cost with all selections.

That said, my point to Greywolf was not to argue balance at this point as nothing will be balanced until a cost is applied.

[Hobomancer]

I would suggest any design you do be based on selections having a cost. There may be situations where you have a trade off as you have stated, but the over new doctrine design will associate a cost with all selections.

That said, my point to Greywolf was not to argue balance at this point as nothing will be balanced until a cost is applied.

All my doctrinal specializations have a cost, As do the unlocks, Save for that one, Its simply a case of it making no sense to tack on a munitions cost for it, If thats gonna happend they need to be equipped with something like an lmg 42 and 2 x scoped mp44, Or 2x lmg42 1 k98, Or 3x scoped mp44, And i figured an lmg and a couple g43's were a good fit here as it doesnt turn them into the highest long range dps in the game and it forces you to make a choice, Which is what this is designed around, Do i want to make my kch a bit more consistent by allowing them to stay at mid and long ranges of engagement, Or do i want them to retain their massive dps potential.

Another way to look at it is that there is actually a cost attached to it, Which is to say a large amount of your short range dps, Its a bit more nebulous than resource costs but a cost nonetheless.

[Korpisolttu]

With a quick glance positive thing is that there are lot of new views for the units and abilities. Imagination were used.

[tank130]

Why am I arguing............

Yup, That is exactly what I am thinking. I just said stay away from free costs, but I also said there may be exceptions. So why exactly are you still arguing?

[Hobomancer]

Yup, That is exactly what I am thinking. I just said stay away from free costs, but I also said there may be exceptions. So why exactly are you still arguing?

Im not, Im explaining my thought process, Incase you didnt understand the thinking behind this so to speak.

[Hobomancer]

Original post updated with Wehrmacht Mechanized, I named it Panzer-Aufklarung (Armored reconnaisance.) Though it does not have an entirely recon theme to it, It features as all my doctrines so far a unique and newly made infantry unit, (Brandenburgers replace stormtroopers and are focused to be entirely about clearing enemy support weapons with a primary focus on anti tank guns, Gebirgsjaegers are Wehrmacht elite infantry built around hitting hard and being hard to kill,) Grosdeutchland Panzergrenadiers are different from both, They are a semi elite infantry unit designed around supporting armored vehicles, They are a five man 60hp/man squad that come standard with volks mp40's and a minesweeper (Cant be replaced by anything else) They also have a repair abillity, They have a few upgrades they can purchase but nothing too crazy.

This doctrine was very hard to design given its narrow focus, And the numbers are still preliminary, But this should give you a general outline of what i think it would take to make a mechanized doctrine interesting, You have heavy AT in the form of geschutzwagens (If you take some of the selections to buff them that is,) Excellent light vehicles in the form of the 250/9 and 251/9 (One performs both the role of direct fire support and transport, Consider it an elite transport,) And you have some good options for smoke and infantry.

Anyway its all up there now, Expect my PE infantry doctrine, (Eastern Front Infantry Company, Which is going to be designed as a bit of a mix between Terror and SE) to be released within 2/3 days from now, And as i mentioned earlier, All numbers are subject to change as balance dictates.

[GrayWolf]

If I could suggest something, for mechanized there should be halftrack with ability to shot out of it. There is a lot of models with open top halftrack. I think no one uses the halftracks because they're not really good enough. On most maps you don't even need to transport your infantry quick and there is extra pop and fuel/manpower.

The company looks good. Gayshutzwagen might be a bit out of order imo, but it's quite good.

[Hobomancer]

If I could suggest something, for mechanized there should be halftrack with ability to shot out of it. There is a lot of models with open top halftrack. I think no one uses the halftracks because they're not really good enough. On most maps you don't even need to transport your infantry quick and there is extra pop and fuel/manpower.

The company looks good. Gayshutzwagen might be a bit out of order imo, but it's quite good.

The 250/9 is a iht with an ac gun on top its purpose is to provide firepower while advancing, and support your infantry after they disembark, i think thats a better idea than a doc that lets your infantry fire out of their halftrack, mostly simply because it doesnt infringe on PE. and there are some nifty buffs for halftracks in my doctrine, hopefully enough to make them viable.

About the gwagon it doesnt fit in any of the other wehr doctrines, and giving it to PE seems rather redundant given that they get the vastly superior marder in the end i think its a rather good fit, especially since the overall role of a mechanized doctrine IMO should be to support friendly armor.

As a sidenote, PE infantry is almost designing itself .

[Hobomancer]

Original post updated with PE infantry doctrine, Im not 100% satisfied with it yet and might change it a little in the future, Wehr infantry has also been changed a bit to not infringe upon Fallschirmjaegers too much, Gebirgsjaegers still gets cloak but falls are the best at it, Anyway hope you like it leave a comment if you do, And as always all the numbers are subject to change as balance dictates.

[jackmccrack]

Can't wait to try these. 

[Hobomancer]

Hello everybody, been driving straight for 40~ hours but i figured i'd give you guys an update on the PE tank doctrine, currently named "Waffen SS Scwherer panzer gruppf" (naming is still wip) anyway, its going to incorporate the king tiger as a doc unit, and the v1 as an offmap, for its doctrinal offmap it will recieve a area wide debuff called propanda war, currently i am planning for the king tiger to provide team wide infantry zeal in a 30 or so m radius, this is of course a doc specialization, further i intend to move the sct i made for wehr armor doc to this one, wehr armor will recieve aan upgrade for all tanks that performs the same purpose, the final unit slot for this doctrine will be the stuh.

I expect it to be finished this monday at the latest.