Fair win? Natrd0g and slowzo disagree what do you think?

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[Kolath]

Well I for one am glad of the change that give the 3min timer precedence.  Just think of it this way, if the attacker pushes the defender back enough for the timer to kick in, the defender has failed to defend the map.  I do not see how this is unfair.  The attacker has 60 minutes to push the defender back to their spawn.  If the 3 min timer has kicked in, the attacher's win condition has been achieved so the 60 min defender timer does not apply.  Makes sense and prevents annoying situations where like where the attacker takes all the sectors at like minute 58 of the game and has clearly won but would "lose" via the 60 minute timer.

[Bonte]

but then u look at war map issues...what if that 60 minute timer stands for incoming friendly forces?

[Warbirds]

but then u look at war map issues...what if that 60 minute timer stands for incoming friendly forces?

And yet it doesn't.

[Bonte]

it did originally...60 minutes stood for one turn on the warmap...so in 60 mins an allied could come to ur aid

[nated0g]

"If the 3 min timer has kicked in, the attacher's win condition has been achieved so the 60 min defender timer does not apply"
 
Yes, but the defenders sucussfully held the onto the map for 60 minutes, which in my view should be the end of the game, since that is the mission objective, to survive for 60 minutes.

[DeadlyShoe]

No, it's that you have to hold the territory for 60 minutes - not survive in it.

There needs to be a second 3 minute timer which actually ends the game, since if a unit is -say - stuck and cant retreat it fucks it up.  Had a long game in linden which never reportd because of a stuck PaK.

[fldash]

DeadleShoe, that game should still report if the winners retreat all their units off the map...

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

as stated by others: if you get pushed back to your spawn, then you have not successfuly defended the area - the area has been over run, so why should you win?

[Bonte]

you do not win in 60 minutes, the game turn is over meaning that the territory is still incontest if another axis commander is attacking the next turn...so you may have the upper hand but the 60 minute timer basically  means beat me in 60 minutes and take the territory or i get reinforcements from my reserve lines

[CommanderNewbie]

The 3 minute timer means that the objective has been achieved, it just gives the defenders a chance to counterattack/cap

That's a very good way of putting it.  Of course, nothing is going to stop the losers from being bitter.  When the timer started, they failed their objective and never retook it.

DeadleShoe, that game should still report if the winners retreat all their units off the map...

Alas, my partner and I did withdraw in the end (I only had a couple of individual riflemen, an hmg, and an ATG) but the battle did not end.  We assumed it's because Shoe had his stuck PaK left on the map (it was the only thing left) but he wasn't on the winning team?

[Kolath]

Bonte, first of all the warmap is not in the game so it is not applicable.  Second, no one has ever stated that 60 minutes is a turn or any such.

Nated0g, DeadlyShoe succinctly summarizes my point.

No, it's that you have to hold the territory for 60 minutes - not survive in it.

If a player has been soundly defeated (as shown by being pushed back to their spawn) they do not get a win for "defending" the map that is now held by the attacker just because they still have units on the board.

[fldash]

Thanks, I will look into this.  At any time after victory has been decided, either side should be able to choose to withdraw their troops to end the battle.

[nated0g]

I suppose we'll leave it to the votes.

[salan]

or maybe the powers that be?  because internet votes are the only law !... right?

[Kolath]

I suppose we'll leave it to the votes.

Also, please note that your poll about your specific game should not be interpreted as a referendum on the concept.  I did not vote in your poll because I did not view the replay, but I stand by the position that it just makes sense to have the timers the way they are.

[fldash]

This is fixed.  Once a win has been received, either side can retreat units off the map to end the game.  I also tried to make the code that retreats a players units when they drop from the game more reliable.

[Kolath]

Awesome, FL.

[CommanderNewbie]

Cheers!

[scrapking]

No, it's that you have to hold the territory for 60 minutes - not survive in it.

Perfectly valid point, but I repeat:

The only thing I would point out is that aside from the defender timer, the only advantage that the defender has is early map control (which with the way MCP scales over time, is not really huge), and preparing a defense, which blitz / infantry / airborne opponents can already severely disrupt.  I've played many games as both sides where I wasn't even able to finish a small (8 or so) stretch of TTs / wire, with 2 pios.

Attacker has more to gain (CP, RB, spoils, territory) with not many things working against them, there should be some advantage to defense commensurate with this.  If not timer, something else perhaps.

If not the timer, what exactly is the defender's advantage to counter the attacker having a chance at gaining more RB, more CP, spoils of war and territory gained?  I guess it is being able to forward deploy and attack the attackers before they get their units even deployed...