Officer abuse?

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[Razor]

I do not believe the current abilities need to be adjusted, just the factors that will limit the amount/use of it.

Did you watch the movie Shoe posted ?

Here's the best solution atm.

One suggestion, made by Louis, that I really liked, was to scale the Officer's supervision effect (and possibly its offmap cooldown) with its own veterancy, and remove its current health & regen bonuses.  Say, vet 0 = 10% dmg 10% acc 10 minute mortar, vet 1 = 15% dmg 15% acc 9 minute mortar, vet 2 = 20% dmg 20% acc 8 minute mortar, vet 3  = 25% dmg 25% acc 7 minute mortar.

[DasNoob]

I do not believe the current abilities need to be adjusted, just the factors that will limit the amount/use of it.

Did you watch the movie Shoe posted ?

Here's the best solution atm.

One suggestion, made by Louis, that I really liked, was to scale the Officer's supervision effect (and possibly its offmap cooldown) with its own veterancy, and remove its current health & regen bonuses.  Say, vet 0 = 10% dmg 10% acc 10 minute mortar, vet 1 = 15% dmg 15% acc 9 minute mortar, vet 2 = 20% dmg 20% acc 8 minute mortar, vet 3  = 25% dmg 25% acc 7 minute mortar.

Did you read my post?  I clearly state that I did.  The only problems I saw were that:

1. Killing the officer was not a priority.

2. More officers in game than should be.

3. The Allies getting out countered at every step, from the bunker to the Flak88.

[Thtb-Ally]

Well Snipers need 3 shots (correct me if i am wrong), can be countered with the bike and even more since its a defence player with possible sight upgrade´s.

Airborne get killed by evrything if you directly drop them at the target, but yes i guess I coud sacrifece them or fireup rush into it hopeing the supervised hmg does not instantly kill me. -Doctorime Specific

Jeep? Dunno, but the officer coud supervise the bike and kill it / suck up the dmg easly.
I might get a jeep swarm for officer killing purpuse though.

Offmap can be evaded again with the def sight + officer being there beloved baby + inaccurate allyed offmap arty + officer = small target with supriseingly much health.

The motar also has the tendency to miss and might get spoted by the enemy bike before it can hit.

Please go on.

[DasNoob]

Well Snipers need 3 shots (correct me if i am wrong), can be countered with the bike and even more since its a defence player with possible sight upgrade´s.

Every unit has it's counter, sniper being a bike/jeep.  I'm glad you know this.

Airborne get killed by evrything if you directly drop them at the target, but yes i guess I coud sacrifece them or fireup rush into it hopeing the supervised hmg does not instantly kill me. -Doctorime Specific

I have seen Airborne do much more than this.  If that is your ability with them than practice.

Jeep? Dunno, but the officer coud supervise the bike and kill it / suck up the dmg easly.
I might get a jeep swarm for officer killing purpuse though.

You asked how to kill an officer and I was listing the many choices... in this case I was not thinking of it actually driving up and shooting it, but using it to scout for more effective units.  Jeep spam could work, m8 spam for that matter.  Please add m8's to the list of counters for the Officer.

Offmap can be evaded again with the def sight + officer being there beloved baby + inaccurate allyed offmap arty + officer = small target with supriseingly much health.

Ok, now you are sounding a bit unhinged.  Offmap is incredibly useful to killing.  If it were not, people would not be bitching about the officers mortar barrage ability... (think offmap but the officer needs to be close).

The motar also has the tendency to miss and might get spoted by the enemy bike before it can hit.

. . . 

Please go on.

Howitzer?

The pwnicer was killed by one.  I even have a video of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR8C-AgcUS4
Even your incredible logic cannot argue against video proof.

I will not comment more... now I know what Ucross and Fldash feel like.  Trying to provide constructive critiques in the face of blind opinion is terrible.

[fldash]

We will be looking to modify the Officers cost and/or abilities bring it more in line with the gameplay and balance we desire from the unit.

[Kolath]

We will be looking to modify the Officers cost and/or abilities bring it more in line with the gameplay and balance we desire from the unit.

Awesome.  Can we please put this one to bed now and talk about new topics?

[DasNoob]

We will be looking to modify the Officers cost and/or abilities bring it more in line with the gameplay and balance we desire from the unit.

Awesome.  Can we please put this one to bed now and talk about new topics?

I agree.  And Fl- this is exactly the way the devs should respond to this kind of stuff.  Perfect and unattackable tbh.

[Unkn0wn]

With his life expectancy and limited mobility the allies should have no problem countering or driving him off the field if they focus on removing him from the match.

Wrong, quite frankly, the only way to kill an officer in a good player's hands is to try and suicide some units into him.
When he's supported, which should always be the case, he'll automatically turn to supervise the counter to your unit, making that unit force your counter off. Quite frankly, when you're attacking a supervised HMG, you're not worrying about the officer, your prime objective is to kill the HMG first. Same with ANY unit the officer supervises, you want that specific unit dead first, you don't have time to worry about the officer.

In addition, the officer gets +10% health at every vet level and +0.015 health regen every vet level.
Any player can keep an officer around for entire battles, if you can't succeed in doing just that than you probably need to learn some micromanagement.

I'm tired of hearing the 'fragile' arguement, it's incorrect.
'Oh just focus fire on it and it'll die instantly', it won't, officers are pretty tough.

[Forefall]

That is awful logic Unknown, your primary target should be the officer, and if you don't think so, perhaps that's why you find it so powerful to fight against.  lol

[DasNoob]

We will be looking to modify the Officers cost and/or abilities bring it more in line with the gameplay and balance we desire from the unit.

nuff said.

[Unkn0wn]

Right, so when I drive a sherman into supervised double shrecks I'll just forget about the shrecks and waste 2 - 3 shots on an officer? Excellent logic? I really think you should try playing allies against officer supervised units before posting these kind of arguements.

The officer takes too long to kill, even if you focus on him, by that time, the unit he's supervising will have generally kicked your ass. At least when you focus on the actual unit you'll find yourself killing something and having SOME effect.


I know this is being looked in to, I'm just straighting out a major misconception about the officer being 'very fragile'.

[Dragon93]

Argh. Unkn0wn, you said it right here.

good luck even getting close to killing it when there's a good player using it.

Read that, and watch video in the "Officers." thread. Whether officers are great or not (don't really care) its all about the players. If you don't use officer's well, they don't do well. They might be OP but it's still all about the players, not necessarily the units.

"It's not how big it is, it's how you use it." 

[Unkn0wn]

That's the case with any unit. Games are generally balanced on the higher levels of play.
(Take company of heroes for instance)

If you can't micro a unit and keep it alive, that's generally your problem .

[scrapking2]

That is awful logic Unknown, your primary target should be the officer, and if you don't think so, perhaps that's why you find it so powerful to fight against.  lol

My prior methods, with Airborne, had been to nade the unit being supervised - HMG, LMG, shrek, etc.  Mostly because that unit was often in a building, and an easier target, less chance of avoiding the nade.

In hindsight, perhaps the nades would have been better on the officer itself, since once it moves, the supervision breaks, right?  And if it doesn't move, problem solved.  Three or four men are certainly harder to kill then the officer, even if the officer has more health than any single man.  And certainly your logic applies to when an officer is supervising a tank.  MY AB squads get raped nading a supervised HMG nest, but I often still manage to take it out.  Meaning I probably could have killed the Officer with similar losses.  

But I think the "panic logic" you go through when assaulting the position is that 140% of the damage is coming from the combat unit being supervised, and only 40% is coming from the officer itself.  It feels like it makes sense at the time.  Perhaps the only time I might disagree with you still is the case of say,  rushing a supervised pak with a  croc.  The croc needs to eliminate the paks fire asap, because the croc would be dead even without an officer there if it doesn't.

Just because I can often get away with an ariborne assault directly on top of an HMG nest with no Officer there does not mean that I should be able to with one there.  Its just a different situation, and requires a different approach.  And just because there is not currently a well known tactical solution to dealing with Officers does not mean that there will not be one tomorrow.

I think we grow too attached to our way of doing things, and expect that they ought not to change.  But this has no bearing on the actual existance of other methods.  For now its mostly a failure to adapt.  

[Forefall]

I didn't know the officer could supervise garrisoned units?  I thought that didn't work.

[scrapking2]

It works. (unless it was changed in the last 2 weeks or so).  In fact I am under the impression it supervises all units in the structure.

[Unkn0wn]

Officers will likely survive that grenade anyway, you're better off throwing it at an LMG squad, hoping to kill 2 - 3 men, reducing their damage output by 50 - 75%. The problem is, by the time you kill that officer, you'll have taken heavy losses by the supervised squad pounding at you, and once you kill the officer you still have to begin fighting the actual unit that was being supervised.

[scrapking2]

Officers will likely survive that grenade anyway, you're better off throwing it at an LMG squad, hoping to kill 2 - 3 men, reducing their damage output by 50 - 75%. The problem is, by the time you kill that officer, you'll have taken heavy losses by the supervised squad pounding at you, and once you kill the officer you still have to begin fighting the actual unit that was being supervised.

I'm fine with that result.  I have squads I am willing to sacrifice for such purposes.  I already had that mentality in other situations, this is just one more.  I throw crocs away to take out shreks & paks, I will throw AB squads away to remove an Officer.  620 MP + 46 MU to rid myself of that evil thing? (and its resources, especially the ~10% of their MU), yes please.

It will be even easier once I get Raid Assault.  Plus I have faith that Officers will be toned down, in some way, without expecting that I deserve immediate drastic action exactly to my liking.

[Unkn0wn]

I don't think throwing away squads to kill things has ever been a good mentality but it seems to be one of the only effective ways indeed .

[DasNoob]

I didn't know the officer could supervise garrisoned units?  I thought that didn't work.

Ucross says it does not work.