Why are american soldiers the best?

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[salan]

....a war that costs more and more lives each day
you know....

Todays society is a bleeding heart waiting to erupt isn't it?  Oh no they lost 5000 (I don't know the number) of lifes after 5 years of fighting?  and the loss of life is sooo staggering that a whole nation must wallow endlessly over it.

Sad state of affairs, europe would lose that many lives in minutes during ww2, can't imagine how long in vietnam or korea...  Everyone needs to be on about a single loss as being unacceptable.

why fight a war, or even have an army if you can't expect some losses.  It sucks, I agree, but why are we as a society such pussies when it comes to these things in this generation.

The total number of drug overdoses in the united states is probably a higher number then the combat losses in the iraq war since it started.  I'm 100% sure their death to car accident total is well over that amount....

(sorry i don't mean to take your comment out of context, really not directed at you, but its something I have thought about a few times... imagine if there was a REAL war (iraq is so not a real war like WW1 or WW2 )  what would our society do then?!)

[Libertine]

We all remembered the reason : Iraq has weapons of mass destruction!

I don't seem to remember them finding any

They weren't the point of the whole operation:...

wow, you know, if i ever need a lesson in how to discredit myself ill be coming back to you.

@ anthony: The difference between us and the Nazis was that the Nazis were butchering people. We're establishing another mini-israel in the middle east.

 

*edit* where exactly is all this propaganda I've been hearing about?

its called Fox News.

however, im gonna stop argueing with you cause quite frankly, somebody who uses the term "we pwnt this, we pwnt that" in a political discussion is just below me.
grow up kid, learn some history.

[Lesserevil]

He means to say that you guys drop like flies in combat and you've yet to have a real unified fighting force, your politics are essentially compromise compromise compromise, and the only noticeable fighting force you have is the UK, which, as they aren't part of the EU and are so different in every other way, could be considered non-european. Then it makes sense.

i dunno wether i should laugh at the stupidity or cry at the ignorance...bit of both maybe.

Germanys standing army is about the same size as that of the UK. the French Army is actually 1/3 bigger then that of the UK. Equipment wise these 3 are about equal.

oh, and tell your secretary of defense that we throw away our guns at the first sight of an enemy cause he apparently asked for more european troops to be sent to Afgahnistan(why is beyond on me, you gut yourself into that shit, see for yourself how you get out again): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/21/AR2007052101085.html?tid=informbox

and you wanna know why we dont have a unified fighting force ? cause its 27 bloody different countries...the european union is a civil organisation, not a military block, just in case you didnt know that.

and as for politics, i actually prefer a compromise to the US "lets just bomb them" approach.
seems as europeans have learned that war never solves any problems but only creates new ones(hint -> iraq), but hey, youll get there some day.

Afghanistan was a response to 9/11.  As the "you got yourselves into that mess, so get yourselves out act" , Yea I sincerely hope the european nations one day need the US again for something one day and we just give them the finger after all this critism we have to take from them.

They won't need us. They'll surrender automatically as soon as anyone poses a threat to them.

Hell, Chile could threaten them with bombs and they'll surrender!

Also, the european defending europeans seems to think numbers=better.

We pwnt you in the rev war.

You had alot of help.

We pwnt you in the war of 1812.
We pwnt the mexicans.

Oh no the mexicans... what ever will we do, they are throwing rocks at us... oh no! jeez mexico just won their war of independence so their army and population was exhausted. Not to mention the US attacked mexico to steel land on a presence. So winning = robbing Mexico.

We pwnt the germans (who had a vastly larger army, just like the british and mexicans).

yeah... im sure you did all the work. Its not like they were already fighting some one... like the Russians, its not like they fought from 1914 to 1918 in another major war that killed millions before the US even joined. Really you are not only over simplifying you are destroying complicated history.

We pwnt the japanese (bigger army again, and it was their homeland!).

Yeah, that at least is true, they did have a bigger army, that was fighting across multiple islands, in china, in Australia in the Philippines and many other places where USA could choose where to attack at will. Still its technically true.

We protected the chinese from being pwnt by forementioned japanese!
We helped russia.
We pwnt russia!

Heh, you did nothing, it was the arms race and breznev that "pwnt" Russia if a war actually broke out, Europe would be drowned under Russian tanks and then everyone would explode in nuclear holocaust.

We pwnt china in korea (and macarthur was not allowed to continue into North korea for fear of ww3 by truman).
We pwnt the VC and commies in Vietnam (an unfourtunate 50k casualties vs 3 million VC deaths).

Get it right Vietnam > USA because USA lost and withdrew and thats why there is a UNIFIED Vietnam now. Im sure if USA did not poison EVERYTHING in sight there would have been alot less deaths.

We insta-pwnt saddam...twice.
If we had the numbers of M.E. terrorists dead vs US...well, that would be another pwnt terrorists.

Oh god your logic makes my brain bleed. While it is technically true how much misery and death has the 2nd invasion caused? if you consider the political social and economic consequences of US actions this is a major disaster!

God i cant respond fast enough to the stupidity of this post. So ill stop right there.

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

....a war that costs more and more lives each day
you know....

Todays society is a bleeding heart waiting to erupt isn't it?  Oh no they lost 5000 (I don't know the number) of lifes after 5 years of fighting?  and the loss of life is sooo staggering that a whole nation must wallow endlessly over it.

Sad state of affairs, europe would lose that many lives in minutes during ww2, can't imagine how long in vietnam or korea...  Everyone needs to be on about a single loss as being unacceptable.

why fight a war, or even have an army if you can't expect some losses.  It sucks, I agree, but why are we as a society such pussies when it comes to these things in this generation.

The total number of drug overdoses in the united states is probably a higher number then the combat losses in the iraq war since it started.  I'm 100% sure their death to car accident total is well over that amount....

(sorry i don't mean to take your comment out of context, really not directed at you, but its something I have thought about a few times... imagine if there was a REAL war (iraq is so not a real war like WW1 or WW2 )  what would our society do then?!)

Its bad because it is a human life, it doesn't matter if they die from drug overdose, a car accident or from a military operation, 1 death is just as bad as 1,000,000.

[salan]

We pwnt you in the war of 1812.

hey now, canada pwnt you in the face in that war... burning down the white house, oh ya oh ya!

of course you burnt down some fort outside of montreal or quebec city, oh noes!

[Libertine]

....a war that costs more and more lives each day
you know....

Todays society is a bleeding heart waiting to erupt isn't it?  Oh no they lost 5000 (I don't know the number) of lifes after 5 years of fighting?  and the loss of life is sooo staggering that a whole nation must wallow endlessly over it.

Sad state of affairs, europe would lose that many lives in minutes during ww2, can't imagine how long in vietnam or korea...  Everyone needs to be on about a single loss as being unacceptable.

why fight a war, or even have an army if you can't expect some losses.  It sucks, I agree, but why are we as a society such pussies when it comes to these things in this generation.

The total number of drug overdoses in the united states is probably a higher number then the combat losses in the iraq war since it started.  I'm 100% sure their death to car accident total is well over that amount....

(sorry i don't mean to take your comment out of context, really not directed at you, but its something I have thought about a few times... imagine if there was a REAL war (iraq is so not a real war like WW1 or WW2 )  what would our society do then?!)

might i point out that 1.5mio iraqis died since the US have brought them "Freedom and Democracy" ?
saw some stats some time ago...roughly 500 iraqis per day die through violence. or do you not count those cause they arent US Citizens ?

[salan]

Its bad because it is a human life, it doesn't matter if they die from drug overdose, a car accident or from a military operation, 1 death is just as bad as 1,000,000.

while i agree, completely, it is a sad state of affair to let your military be ruled by such a thought... (maybe thats why canada has a minimal military   )

[Unkn0wn]

Actually, like Stalin once said... 'The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions... mere statistics.'

[Lesserevil]

Actually, like Stalin once said... 'The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions... mere statistics.'

I think it was more like "The death of an individual is a tragedy, the death of a few a horror, the death of millions a statistic"  of course it's been stylized so much that its hard to say what he actually said.

[salan]

....a war that costs more and more lives each day
you know....

Todays society is a bleeding heart waiting to erupt isn't it?  Oh no they lost 5000 (I don't know the number) of lifes after 5 years of fighting?  and the loss of life is sooo staggering that a whole nation must wallow endlessly over it.

Sad state of affairs, europe would lose that many lives in minutes during ww2, can't imagine how long in vietnam or korea...  Everyone needs to be on about a single loss as being unacceptable.

why fight a war, or even have an army if you can't expect some losses.  It sucks, I agree, but why are we as a society such pussies when it comes to these things in this generation.

The total number of drug overdoses in the united states is probably a higher number then the combat losses in the iraq war since it started.  I'm 100% sure their death to car accident total is well over that amount....

(sorry i don't mean to take your comment out of context, really not directed at you, but its something I have thought about a few times... imagine if there was a REAL war (iraq is so not a real war like WW1 or WW2 )  what would our society do then?!)

might i point out that 1.5mio iraqis died since the US have brought them "Freedom and Democracy" ?
saw some stats some time ago...roughly 500 iraqis per day die through violence. or do you not count those cause they arent US Citizens ?

I'm not American, and I'm commenting on the American point of 'loss of service men'..     I'm sure the Iraq's lost less per day under Hussein but their losses weren't the point in the comment.  The innocent always pay the price for the guilty, THAT is the sad part about wars.

If you have a standing army, and send that army to fight, society needs to expect losses.  The fact that somewhere around 5000 people died doing their countries bidding seems to make a lot of people weak in the knee's.  YOU SENT THEM THERE... and what of the innocent lives, they are worth 10 times each of those lives because they just had the misfortune of living there before you came...  but they only care about the 5000 that died, and thats why I said its a sad state of affairs when 5000 losses can all but cripple a countries view on life.

[anthony210]

....a war that costs more and more lives each day
you know....

Todays society is a bleeding heart waiting to erupt isn't it?  Oh no they lost 5000 (I don't know the number) of lifes after 5 years of fighting?  and the loss of life is sooo staggering that a whole nation must wallow endlessly over it.

Sad state of affairs, europe would lose that many lives in minutes during ww2, can't imagine how long in vietnam or korea...  Everyone needs to be on about a single loss as being unacceptable.

why fight a war, or even have an army if you can't expect some losses.  It sucks, I agree, but why are we as a society such pussies when it comes to these things in this generation.

The total number of drug overdoses in the united states is probably a higher number then the combat losses in the iraq war since it started.  I'm 100% sure their death to car accident total is well over that amount....

(sorry i don't mean to take your comment out of context, really not directed at you, but its something I have thought about a few times... imagine if there was a REAL war (iraq is so not a real war like WW1 or WW2 )  what would our society do then?!)

might i point out that 1.5mio iraqis died since the US have brought them "Freedom and Democracy" ?
saw some stats some time ago...roughly 500 iraqis per day die through violence. or do you not count those cause they arent US Citizens ?

The middle east will always be a mess, no matter what we or anyone else does. You cannot defeat crazy people who dont care about dieing and blow themselves up just to kill the infidels.  Nothing against Islam, I know some islamic people and they are not like that, its the crazy people that give islam a bad name.

I personally think Saddam deserved what he got.  Maybe we didnt have the right to go in there but I think the people of Iraq are better off without him.  I wish all the people of the world would realise that the US realises it made a mistake but they also have to realise that leaving Iraq alone right now would cause more harm than good.

People that say we are killing civilians there are completly stupid and have no idea what they are talking about.  Its a warzone, shit happens, people die.  There is no american soldier who is going around killing innocent civilians on purpose, your not there you dont know what they have to go through.  Where you go down the street and you have no idea if that guy walking down the side of the road is gonna blow himself up just to try and kill you.  

Just realise most of the US including the president realise that Iraq may have been a mistake, but leaving right now is just not an option.  They are in no condition to govern themselves at the moment, leaving now would probably just cause another Saddam to rise to power and then were back where we were in 2001.

[Wraith547]

The thing I understand least, is why the Iraqi people aren't more angry about how their own religious leaders are treating them. The vast majority of civilian deaths are the result of secretarian violence. Some asshole drives a carbomb into a market and kills 150 because they don't recognize the true caliph.

On the otherhand if the Iraqi's really want to keep killing each other they just need to sit tight for a few more months. GDub will be out of office and whichever dem candidate wins will start withdrawing troops. Then they can just go back to the way it has been for the last 2000 years, killing each other over religion. Can't really say much though, they are basically where Western religion was 500 years ago.

[salan]

The thing I understand least, is why the Iraqi people aren't more angry about how their own religious leaders are treating them. The vast majority of civilian deaths are the result of secretarian violence. Some asshole drives a carbomb into a market and kills 150 because they don't recognize the true caliph.

On the otherhand if the Iraqi's really want to keep killing each other they just need to sit tight for a few more months. GDub will be out of office and whichever dem candidate wins will start withdrawing troops. Then they can just go back to the way it has been for the last 2000 years, killing each other over religion. Can't really say much though, they are basically where Western religion was 500 years ago.

ya the whole thing about 1.5 million iraqi's can be blamed on the americans, but they should be looking at their own countrymen and the insurgents for the actual killers.

[Ciwawa]

There is no american soldier who is going around killing innocent civilians on purpose

 

[Wraith547]

ya the whole thing about 1.5 million iraqi's can be blamed on the americans, but they should be looking at their own countrymen and the insurgents for the actual killers.

I understand that American soldiers have done things that make me less than proud, but it grates on me when people act like they are slaughtering innocents.

Realistically, we should just hand over the Shi'a section to Iran, allow the Sunni region to remain Iraq, and ship the Kurd up to Turkey(where they would likely be exterminated by the Turks, but who is counting at this point). The boundaries of Iraq are artificial creations of the British anywho, which were made up following WWI with complete disregard to cultural landscape.

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

Actually, like Stalin once said... 'The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions... mere statistics.'

that is what i was going to quote in response to salan original post but thought it too cliche... 

[Lesserevil]

Realistically, we should just hand over the Shi'a section to Iran, allow the Sunni region to remain Iraq, and ship the Kurd up to Turkey(where they would likely be exterminated by the Turks, but who is counting at this point). The boundaries of Iraq are artificial creations of the British anywho, which were made up following WWI with complete disregard to cultural landscape.

Omg some one knows their history of the middle east! Although if we were to break up Iraq it would just be easier to polarize the nationalities into 3 distinct parts one for each of them. Split the oil into 3 and leave them alone.

[Lesserevil]

Actually, like Stalin once said... 'The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions... mere statistics.'

that is what i was going to quite but thought it too cliche 

Awww.... well i guess i dont really know what to say to that. Other then. Damn it i miss posts b4 i can post.

Also i guess i like cliche's.  Besides that saying has been hammered into my brain. And every time i think of stalin thats what comes up.

[lompocus]

Its bad because it is a human life, it doesn't matter if they die from drug overdose, a car accident or from a military operation, 1 death is just as bad as 1,000,000.

while i agree, completely, it is a sad state of affair to let your military be ruled by such a thought... (maybe thats why canada has a minimal military   )

No, canada has a puny military because any attack on them is automatically an attack on their kick-ass southern neighbor, which means no matter what happens the us is gurenteed to respond.

That, and they can just buy all their tech from their neighbor.


@ Wraith: Kill the kurds? Are you mad? The kurds are the only sensible people in the region. If anything they of all people deserve a country, but the problem is that their boundaries intersect 3 or 4 other nations boundaries and one of those nations is an ally of us, which allows us to keep a close military presence to the middle east (turkey, if you don't know). They're the only ones not totally obliterating themselves over religion.

[Libertine]

I understand that American soldiers have done things that make me less than proud, but it grates on me when people act like they are slaughtering innocents.

Realistically, we should just hand over the Shi'a section to Iran, allow the Sunni region to remain Iraq, and ship the Kurd up to Turkey(where they would likely be exterminated by the Turks, but who is counting at this point). The boundaries of Iraq are artificial creations of the British anywho, which were made up following WWI with complete disregard to cultural landscape.

that bold part, right there is your answer why the US efforts to create a democratic state fail in iraq.
these people have lived under an autocratic rule for the last god knows how many years.
and from one day to the next the infrastructure gets bombed to crap and the US come marching in with "hey, here, have a nice hot cup of democracy". it doesnt work that way. especially not with stuff like abu graib, security personal shooting civilians and rape(more then enough documented cases) going on all the time.
do you really expect someone to be grateful that he exchanged supression for complete chaos ?
yes, it is mostly iraqis that cause civilian deaths but the reason behind that is the US Occupation.
so yeah, they probably arent too happy with their countrymen blowing them up, but they sure as hell are pissed just as much at the US for creating the mess in the first place.
one of the biggest mistakes the US made in iraq was to dissolve the baath party cause hand in hand with that pretty much all civil government structures got lost and chaos broke out.
after WW2 the US were smarter, they did the cleaning of the nazis but they used them reinstate order, thats the difference.
i mean, its the same thing with Russia going from communism to a democracy. that wouldnt have worked if from one day to the next all members of the communist party were kicked from government jobs, that would also have resulted in utter chaos.