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[Warbirds]

Apex, if you garrisoned the Chateau even after I warned you, it's your own fault.  However, I will look into the other problems.  I'll merge some sectors, and remove some hedges outside and probably a few buildings to make starting from the north easier.

[Skewldya]

Played a second game today on this map, the sectors are horrible.  It is way way to confined.  The pathing is horrible as well.

[salan3]

pathing doesn't work at all.  To confined between objects.  To many sectors, to small, a bunch don't cap.

Its a great idea, but you need lots of work to make this playable

[Unkn0wn]

City maps are one of the hardest things to do right in terms of mapping. I pretty much failed with Vierville myself, and that wasn't even my first urban map. Bastion is one of the very few succesful 'urban maps' and even Bastion is not a true urban map, more of a cautious attempt .
I'm actually looking forward to see how well Kolath & Lolto will do with their upcoming urban map projects.

Anyway, don't let the criticism get you down too much, it's one of your first maps so it's natural that you still have some things to learn left & right. It's all one big learning process .

[Mori]

Played a second game today on this map, the sectors are horrible.  It is way way to confined.  The pathing is horrible as well.

I agree. Too many sectors, for example right behind the houses when you enter the north there's a tiny pointles sector. Also, the big building in the north there auto-upgrades to forward barracks, one the other team can't de-cap (to me it didnt look like a chateau, could be we mean the same one).

Currently, I think this map is not suitable for EiR gameplay at all. If you want it to be, remove a lot of the restrictions. For example remove a few streets and take away some houses where there's whole rows of them. Also make a bunch of them either usable or destroyed. There's a bunch of buildings now can you can get into, but don't fire on sides with windows... The 'north entrance' for example, maybe replace that bunch of buildings with destructable stone walls with 1 or 2 infantry-gates in them, instead of these crawl-through passages.

[Warbirds]

I've already gone to work on removing buildings and hedges.  Sectors, I am horrible at, so if Unk0wn or someone wants to do them, feel free.  I might have a new overhead within 2-3 hour detailing changes.

[salan2]

I've already gone to work on removing buildings and hedges.  Sectors, I am horrible at, so if Unk0wn or someone wants to do them, feel free.  I might have a new overhead within 2-3 hour detailing changes.

warbirds make them like this dude..




check out the sectors for st com du mont... something a long these lines (also seen in st winn and bastion) seem to work absolutely fantastic with EIR attack/defend mcp.



when doing sectors, ignore your geographic tendencies... make it functional for the game, not looks.

[jjwa]

I've already gone to work on removing buildings and hedges.  Sectors, I am horrible at, so if Unk0wn or someone wants to do them, feel free.  I might have a new overhead within 2-3 hour detailing changes.

warbirds make them like this dude..




check out the sectors for st com du mont... something a long these lines (also seen in st winn and bastion) seem to work absolutely fantastic with EIR attack/defend mcp.


when doing sectors, ignore your geographic tendencies... make it functional for the game, not looks.

Hey Salan,
I see you posting that same feedback in topics of three different EiR maps and have seen it more often before. Even tho I think it is good feedback, be sure not try and make all the maps exactly the same .

For example, this layout is very practical and clear in what options you have, but sector layours done more 'naturally' can interesting to play as well because they play out differently and can give you different options. Having this layout you have pretty much three options to get a decent amount of map control. Focus on the center, on the left, or on the right side. Center usually blobbed with obstacles (a town, or at least some objects practical for defense), sides usually more open and more practical for flanking and capping towards the spawn or even to the back of the middle. That is fine, but being that limited is for me personally what can make Bastion too slow of a map and it would also be boring to be that limited in every EiR map you play.

Making the sectors follow geographical shapes a bit (sectors could still be in the same area, could be the same size and they could be the same amount as the 'square layout') also feels a bit more logical: "Come into this area if you want to cap this area" instead of "I'm kinda nearby but still outside of that badly accessible area, which is a good place to defend, but I can cap it anyway because the sectors are all squares". For example with areas with something that in the actual fight often functions as 'natural borders' (blocking your fire, your tank path, or at least infantry path) like hedges, walls, streets, etcetera.

And obviously: this post is meant as a constructive comment; not a flame or offense towards you. I naturally appreciate what you and others do for the community.

jjwa

[salan2]

the problem when people do natural sector layout is that generally, they mess it up.

Badly.

St Laurent for instance had sectors that were done naturally before, and they wrecked the map completely.  It creates areas that are completely destructive to the ebb and flow of the game.  the road in Laurent would shut down half the map by keeping 1 unit in the middle of the city for instance.   Small miniscule sectors lopside the bleed horribly unless they are on both sides of the map, and usually they aren't.  Basically MCP doesn't work with sectors that are done only to reflect the layout of the map.

I do agree that a mix of both is best, hence bastions city being a triangle, and this one having slightly different aruond the city area.

I used that picture cuz i coudln't find a diagram of winn or bastion with the sectors showing, sadly.  But ya, I agree, and disagree..

[jjwa]

Of course all those things you named are pretty bad. There is a certain rough number of sectors per map depending on size as well as min and max size of the sectors. One of the worst examples is indeed locking down a whole area with just one sector. Vierville, which I in general like, also has one of those, right at the entrance of the whole city, pretty bad.

Just saying making every map a bunch of squads with a few extra squares in the middle is going to be boring Because that is what the map makers will read in your post. "Make it a bunch of big squares, one row on each side, block of a few smaller ones in the middle."

[Unkn0wn]

The sector system Salan proposes only really works for rectangular maps unfortunately.
(Maps such as Bastion, St. Lambert, St. Winn, St. Come du Mont, Rails & metal, RTC)

[salan]

but, the thing is, the MAP control is kinda secondary in those maps to the actual fighting ..  If you base the map upon location for sectors you run into areas that are absolutely useless comparably, and never used, or over used.

sure you can flank and force a flank on bastion, and because of that the whole map can actually be fought over, depending on each sides tactics.

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

Sorry i am being so slow with the mission you requested for this map, i am doing my A levels at this moment in time and have had very little spare time, i will be getting back to this and my tutorial project as soon as they are over .

[Warbirds]

No problem, Cozmo.

I'm working on redoing certain things that people complained about, like too many buildings, constricting hedgerows, etc.  I'll do the sector layout last, after I finish.  I'll have some new preview pictures up later.

[Warbirds]

4 new pics and an overhead.  Feedback, please.  I'd like to know if I should add more ruins, take out certain hedgerows, etc.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[salan]

I like the new field lay out much more, and looks less constricting, will definitely give it a go next game i play

[Aggamemnon]

Downloading it now, will give it a looksie.

[Warbirds]

DL link is for the old version.  Prepare to be disappointed. 

And thanks, Salan.

[Schultz]

I like this map

[Kolath]

DL link is for the old version.  Prepare to be disappointed. 

And thanks, Salan.

Is there a new version link?  If so, post it in the map database thread and I'll get it up asap.