One thing that came to my mind again.

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[Ciwawa]

a tank burn for days, many days depend on the ammount of fuel and ammo that it carry, the turret can also exploded after when the ammo slowly exploded

[They Call Me SpitFire]

Sweet Story I a Patriotic american salute you Wittman as you are one of the best. Even if you killed many of my greatfathers you did your duty as they did theirs. {God Bless you and rest in Peace. (Saying that to all soldiers)}

[Akranadas]

[AmPM]

I would like Wittman more, but he was a die hard nazi.

Rommel is a man I can respect for more than his ability as a soldier.

[DerangedFerret]

Rommel is without a doubt the most honorable Nazi to achieve such high rank.

[Unkn0wn]

Rommel wasn't a nazi.
Shows you're just following the black & white image of 'All germans = nazis & all americans = awesome'.
Rommel is the only german general that has a museum dedicated to him, and his son is/was the mayor of a major city in Germany. You should always get your facts straight before just sticking a name on someone  .


Wehrmacht (Heer/Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe) =/= Nazis.

[Flack]

Rommel was not a nazi, however he was pro-nazi and had nazi sympathies. For example he did not want to take part in the July plot to kill Hitler.

[CommanderNewbie]

Indeed, it's difficult for me to really respect any of the German commanders.  I've found that you don't become a general if you don't agree with the state of things, or if you don't agree with Hitler.

*shrugs*

Some were obviously better than others, but it's all relative in the 3rd Reich.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Tiger armor wasn't that good.  I was reading an account of the Ardennes Offensive (aka Battle of the Bulge) last week; two crippled shermans took out 5 tigers with flank shots.

Tactics and coordination constantly proved superior to advantages in equipment in WW2, at least that is my impression. I imagine it's the same way throughout history.

edit: Here's the reference.

Although an experienced outfit, the 2d Infantry Division made its first fight against a large force of tanks in the action at Krinkelt-Rocherath. In the early evening of 18 December General Robertson telephoned his assistant division commander: "This is a tank battle--if there are any tank replacements we could use them as crews are pretty tired. We could use the tanks mounting a 90mm. [gun]." Robertson's wish for an American tank with adequate armament to cope with the German Panthers and Tigers was being echoed and would be echoed--prayerfully and profanely--wherever the enemy panzer divisions appeared out of the Ardennes hills and forests. What the 2d Division actually had was a little less than a battalion of Sherman tanks mounting the standard 75mm. gun, a tank weapon already proven unequal to a duel with Panther or Tiger in head-to-head encounter. It must be said, however, that the 2d Division tank support came from a seasoned armored outfit--the 741st Tank Battalion--which had landed at OMAHA Beach on 6 June and had been almost constantly in action since. Unable to engage the 12th SS Panthers and the GHQ Tigers on equal terms in the open field, the Shermans were parceled out in and around the villages in two's and three's. Hidden by walls, houses, and hedgerows, or making sudden forays into the open, the American tankers stalked the heavier, better armed panzers, maneuvering under cover for a clear shot at flank or tail, or lying quietly in a lane until a Panther or Tiger crossed the sights.

Since most of the enemy tanks entered the villages in the dark or in the fog, the defenders generally fought on distinctly advantageous terms and at ranges where--if the heavy frontal protection of the German tank could be avoided--a kill was certain. The 741st knocked out an estimated 27 tanks (nearly all of which actually were examined) and lost 11 Shermans. Even disabled tanks, immobilized inside the American lines, continued to have a hand in the fight. Two crippled Shermans parked in a Rocherath lane accounted for five Tigers which incautiously came by broadside. On the second night the German tanks entered the villages prepared to ferret out the American armor. Each assault tank was accompanied by foot soldiers armed with bazookas, fires were started to light dark streets and alleys, and many of the Germans boldly used their searchlights. These tactics failed; illumination served the waiting American tanks as well as the enemy. German bazooka teams did succeed in knocking out a pair of Shermans but generally found the American infantry, dismounted tankers, and tank destroyer crewmen, waiting to erase the walking infantry screens.

The American tank destroyers shared honors with the tanks in this battle, but as it often happened in the Ardennes the fight had to be carried by the self-propelled guns, the towed guns serving mostly as convenient targets for the enemy. The 644th Tank Destroyer Battalion (minus one company) employed its self-propelled 3-inch guns with such effect as to destroy 17 tanks, disable 3, and knock out 2 German assault guns. Two guns of the battalion were damaged beyond recovery. Most of these kills were made in or near the villages against enemy tanks which had halted and were not firing, at ranges from 25 to 1,000 yards. In some instances one round of high-velocity, armor-piercing ammunition was sufficient to set a Panther aflame; generally two or three rounds with base detonating fuzes were needed and, as the Sherman tanks had found, direct hits on the German frontal armor or mantlet had the unpleasant habit of glancing off.

The experience of the 801st Tank Destroyer Battalion, a towed outfit, was markedly different. Emplaced close to the infantry line, its 3-inch guns were brought under intense shelling and could be moved only at night. During attack, bogged in mud and unable to shift firing positions, the towed tank destroyers quickly fell prey to direct fire or infantry assault. Between 17 and 19 December the 801st lost 17 guns and 16 half-tracks. Indeed, the greatest combat value of the towed battalion came from the mines carried on the half-tracks (which were used with effect by adjacent riflemen) and the employment of the gun crews as infantry. On the afternoon of 18 December, with guns and vehicles gone, the bulk of the battalion was ordered to Elsenborn. Even so there were a few instances when the towed guns were able to fight and make kills under favorable circumstances. One gun from the 801st had been placed to cover a straggler line in the vicinity of Hünnigen and here, deep inside the American position, surprised and knocked out four Mark IV's before it was destroyed.

The infantry antitank weapons employed in the defense of Krinkelt-Rocherath varied considerably in effectiveness. The 57-mm. battalion antitank guns--and their crews--simply were tank fodder. The mobility of this towed piece, which had been a feature of the gun on design boards and in proving ground tests, failed in the mud at the forward positions. Only a very lucky shot could damage a Panther or Tiger, and at the close of this operation both the 2d and 99th Divisions recommended the abolition of the 57-mm. as an infantry antitank gun. The rifle battalions which were hurried south from Wahlerscheid on 17 December had left their mines in the forest or with the battalion trains. Even the few antitank mines on hand could not be put to proper use during the first night engagement when stragglers and vehicular columns were pouring along the same routes the enemy armor was using.

 In the first contact at the crossroads east of Rocherath the German tanks were halted by a hasty mine field, but the rifle company made its most effective use of this defense by laying mines to protect the rear of the American position after the tanks had rolled by. The bazooka in the hands of the defending infantry proved extremely useful. During the dark hours, bazooka teams were able to work close to their prey under the cover provided by walls, houses and hedgerows. But, as in the case of the tank destroyers, most hits were scored against tanks which had paused or been stranded by the detonation of mines and high-explosive shellfire. In the various melees at the villages the German tank crews seldom escaped no matter what weapon was used against them. Most crewmen were burned as the tank blew up or they were cut down by bullet fire at close range. The 2d Division, like most veteran divisions, had armed itself beyond the limits of approved tables of equipment. Nearly every rifle platoon, as a result, had at least two bazookas, so that team play to distract and then destroy the target tank was feasible.

[CommanderNewbie]

that, and lucky shot placement.

[Unkn0wn]

And the lack of proper organisation & coordination on the german side during the Ardennes Offensive.

[asmithally]

and the forest/fog/darkness/villages which meant the sherman couldn't be picked off from two kilometers away.

[Warbirds]

King Tigers getting stuck in the mud, etc.

[Unkn0wn]

And the shortage of fuel etc .

[BoDyBaG2224TLS]

And Klaus having to avoid the bunnies

*ToH reference btw*

[AmPM]

Rommel did not want to assassinate the elected leader of his country no, but that was as a soldier. He kept the SS from coming to North Africa and was generally a well liked man on both sides of the war.

The North African front was probably the most civil, with both sides allowing the other to retrieve wounded and dead, exchange of PoWs, and the allowance for troops that were surrounded to throw down arms and retreat.

I've read multiple accounts of all of those things happening.

"Rommel's military successes earned the respect not only of his troops and Adolf Hitler, but also that of his enemy Commonwealth troops in the North African Campaign. An enduring legacy of Rommel's character is that he is also considered to be a chivalrous and humane military officer in contrast with many other figures of Nazi Germany. Most captured Commonwealth soldiers during his Africa campaign report to have been largely treated humanely, and orders to kill captured Jewish soldiers and civilians in all theatres of his command were defiantly ignored. Following the defeat of Axis forces in North Africa, and whilst commanding the defence of Occupied France, his fortunes changed when he was suspected of involvement in the failed July 20 Plot of 1944 to kill Hitler and was forced to commit suicide." -Wikipedia

I hate to quote that place, but this is correct.

Remember, he was a decorated soldier in WWI, and he stayed in the military through his death. He was not a Nazi. To prevent further ignorant remarks on the part of others, I suggest some reading.

[Flack]

"In 1937, Rommel conducted a tour of HJ meetings and encampments, delivered lectures on German soldiering while inspecting facilities and exercises. Simultaneously he was pressuring Baldur von Schirach, the Hitler Jugend leader, to accept an agreement expanding the army's involvement in Hitler Jugend training. Schirach interpreted this as a bid to turn the Hitler Jugend into an army auxiliary, a "junior army" in his words."

Wanting the Hitlerjugend too be a auxiliary army and yet you consider him a non-nazi? It certainly gives him a good deal of ties too the nazi party. And following a lot of peoples logic, when you were in the nazi party you were just as much a nazi as Hitler.

[AmPM]

How would bringing them under the control of the Heer be worse than leaving them under the control of the SS? All that could come from that would be turning them into regular soldiers.

You do realize the HJ were already a combat force to be used by the SS and the Nazi party. Bringing it into the Heer would have removed most of the political indoctrination from the mix. How is taking kids out of the hands of the hands of the Nazi party and putting them into regular army training behavior befitting a Nazi?

Remember that at that time, most of the HJ at the stage where they were learning soldiering were actually in the 16-18 years of age range. They didn't throw the kids into the mix until the Soviets were inside the borders of Germany.

Secondly, as a General in the German Army in WW2 how would you avoid dealing with Nazi's? I'm just curious. Since it was the leading political party at the time. Thats like saying a US Army general today shouldn't deal with Republicans unless he is a Republican.

[DerangedFerret]

Rommel wasn't a nazi.
Shows you're just following the black & white image of 'All germans = nazis & all americans = awesome'.
Rommel is the only german general that has a museum dedicated to him, and his son is/was the mayor of a major city in Germany. You should always get your facts straight before just sticking a name on someone  .


Wehrmacht (Heer/Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe) =/= Nazis.

 I am not labeling Rommel as a Nazi merely because he is German. I honestly thought he was a Nazi. I stand corrected. And Patton was an asshole. Just read some of his quotes sometime.

[AmPM]

Patton committed a lot of warcrimes =)