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[GMGriffith]

Unfortunately a large part of the education you get in public school is up to the student. Those kids who want to do well and actually study have the option of taking Advanced Placement courses in high school, effectively college level material. While its a great system its probably something that should be forced on all kids - and there should be some kind of incentive to do well, most students just go to school because they have to, so they take the easiest courses and do little to no work.

It seemed to me like after you get out of the structured courses of k-8 or whatever and get to pick your classes you can actually do well. Up until then, well, its structured PC bs as has been mentioned.

Then again this is all coming from someone who graduated with a 2.0 GPA =P I kinda stopped caring about my grades when I decided i was gonna join the Navy, now i'm an electrician for nuclear plants on aircraft carriers. Either way, for the average schlub the US education system is horribly inadequate.

[lompocus]

It really is liberal bullshit as to why our public school system sucks (which is the sole reason why I decided to go to a private hs instead of the, um...let's just say the local public school doesn't offer...well, I'll be blunt and say it sucks. It's an awesome place otherwise, though!...just not academically-so.).

You make the teachers appeal to 'all ranges' of students. You make the students feel like the nicest little perfect people in the whole damn world! You do all of this and try to keep the students up to the level of the California standards and keep them 'up to speed' in whichever way possible so that your students get really good grades on the yearly standardized tests, so that the parents don't go beserk, so that you look good in the sea that is your coworkers and in the face of your boss, and so you get to know people and move up the ladder. It's incredibly idiotic politics in the school system.

To the idiot who is bound to suggest we reward teachers for good grades: The Teacher simply fills in the right answer for the student when they turn in their tests and says, "Look! Little Johnny went from a F in X other teacher's class to an A+ in just a week in my class!"

GM has it spot-on when he says how the student, and to a greater degree the student's family, must be pushed/push their child to excel and, for the family, instill, in their child, an understanding that the little kid needs to study from K-12 and beyond to get a good life.

The quality of education really differs region-to-region, so you can't exactly generalize, either. My mom has worked in the school district in this area for a while (and through proxy i get access to a limited number of super detailed statistics on the schools! lolz) and most of the resources are devoted to making a nearby hs shine in the face of a very shitty hs (both which service two opposite sides of the town). I got every recommendation from every person I'd known NOT to go to either hs (I go to some real good catholic hs 20 mins from here alongside a few others from my town. It may sound crappy but its actually ok. It's just small...). That definitely says something about the state of the school system. There is good in it, but when any alternative comes up its best to take the alternative.

However...that's not to say it's better anywhere else. Everyone says how the schools are superior in Mexico, Europe, etc. I tell you that memorizing things like mad and not being encouraged to think doesn't make a better school. Proof -> It's an American world, not a European world, the prosperity of which relies solely on the state of our economy and the safety and freedom of which is kept in good measure solely by our might, and from which you live based on American creations made here. It's been like this for some time. I think we must have done something right if we're the target of everyone's angst (and all the while we hold the power to determine whether your country is good or lives in the world's shithole) xD.

[Nevyen]

I think hes right the current global credit squeeze is directly related to american intelligence or lack therof............

[lompocus]

I think hes right the current global credit squeeze is directly related to american intelligence or lack therof............

*points at F-22, F-35, M1A2 abrams, Dragon Scale body armor, that one company developing that one exoskeleton, UAVs of all shapes and sizes and uses, the M4, M16, and upcoming 6.14 mm bullet gun of doom and death, MIT, USC, and every other american university, the first real Democracy, the liberation (or annhilation then rebuilding ) of your non-american country, the basis on which your country operates, the people who saved your country again, any modern science or branch of engineering including our modern understandings of the universe and the people that discovered them for you, and THIS VIDEO: http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=29693*

Yes. Yes, I have just suave-rolled you. I just needed to include the last vid but the rest of the post is good info.

[Wraith547]

I think hes right the current global credit squeeze is directly related to american intelligence or lack therof............

*points at F-22, F-35, M1A2 abrams, Dragon Scale body armor, that one company developing that one exoskeleton, UAVs of all shapes and sizes and uses, the M4, M16, and upcoming 6.14 mm bullet gun of doom and death, MIT, USC, and every other american university, the first real Democracy, the liberation (or annhilation then rebuilding ) of your non-american country, the basis on which your country operates, the people who saved your country again, any modern science or branch of engineering including our modern understandings of the universe and the people that discovered them for you, and THIS VIDEO: http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=29693*

Yes. Yes, I have just suave-rolled you. I just needed to include the last vid but the rest of the post is good info.

Could we please not turn this into another I love/hate American thread. We now have 2 dedicated to that particular brand of retardation, go back and use those.

[Lt_Apollo]

i must say the schools in the majority of my country are crap, luckily i live in a blue state and where not as ignorant or blind as others *chough* Bush *chough* still though i cant stand the US's attitude tord the rest of the world it idiotic, where not so high and mighty that we can ignore ever thing. A; our economy is failing B: our schools are now crap C: bush    at least by next year we may have an actual president lol.

[Wraith547]

i must say the schools in the majority of my country are crap, luckily i live in a blue state and where not as ignorant or blind as others *chough* Bush *chough* still though i cant stand the US's attitude tord the rest of the world it idiotic, where not so high and mighty that we can ignore ever thing. A; our economy is failing B: our schools are now crap C: bush    at least by next year we may have an actual president lol.

And how praytell would you suggest we fix our school systems, being from a blue state?

How do you provide a quality education to ALL students? Insuring a quality education that caters to the motivated and gifted while insuring the successful education of children from low income households or those that struggle to keep up. Keep in mind that with class sizes swelling to over forty kids per class in many areas, its impossible to sort everyone out into a class that best fits their educational needs.

[Nevyen]

You didn't roll me fool, military might is not the only thing one should scale ones presumptions on.  Your assumptions about technological advancements show your lack of intelligence,  America is a great assimilator,  most if not all advancements come from other countries that are then picked up on by American firms, it confers no great advancement on America other than minimal Kudos, Point in case Most advancements in cancer research come from Australia as well as advancements in hearing aide applications.  

Additionally do you understand what a true screw up the US economy is right now and that through such arrogance as what you exhibit is has effected to the rest of world?  

The American education system was best displayed to me when I was in Minnesota about 4 years back and when visiting with family in St Paul their children 14 and 17 could not even identify my country or France on a globe and when enquires where made it was found that such topics where lightly if not even touched on.

In Australia at least by year 9 children are being taught  rudimentary
 calculus are understanding European and Australian History, are taught about American political thought as well as ancient greek political basis, and have access to literature that extends from shake sphere through to Livy as their basic curriculum dependent of the school they go to.  

While there will always be social divides, I’ve yet to come across a majority of Americans who don't have insular arrogant views of the world and who do not denigrate those with a different opinion and then lambaste those who hold such view with a cavalcade of half truths and misconceptions.  

Also the 1st real democracy was Greece, bear that in mind before you run off with that view and the 1st inklings of your current system where born in salons in Paris and writers in England.   The separation of Church and state happened well before America and works better than it does now in your own country.  

Additionally if i remember correctly we defended our own country on Kadoka in ww2. Without Australian know how and skill your battle of guadacanal would not have been the success it was and Borneo would not have gone as well as it would of.  Your troops and Generals in Afghanistan according to a recent senate report have continually requested the re-deployment of our SAS because of their 100% mission success rate, and operation annaconda would not have been the success it was in saving your famed mountain regiments had it not been for 5 SAS observers who ran the battle from a isolated and encircled position.  

Your greatness is built on the ingenuity and strength of collaboration by more than just your countrymen, yet you ignore that and claim all the glory for your self and when it goes wrong blame someone else.  

Such comes from a poor and arrogant education system.  Some humility would be appreciated by others who have bled and helped you create your nation.  Your response to my Jibe is but a small example of what infuriates others across the world.
 

[AmPM]

And pray, where will we get this money? No doubt your parents would vote no and just about anything that raises taxes.

Seriously, you find complete idiots that are ignorant in every country. Our Economy falls every 8 years or so on a cycle, its nothing new.

[Nevyen]

Wraith it was recently tabled by a us senates estimates board that if but one year of military spending was rediverted to the US health system the current medicare debacle could resolved.

Just think what could be done with that money on the education system.  

[salan]

and to think they would complain when we would debate about game issues.. oh I hate to say it, but I told you so !


(a comment I made in one of my many thousands of posts about how the community growing would bring a much much more diverse and differing audience)

[Wraith547]

I think more money would help, ***cough pay teachers fair wages cough*** but in the end its the culture of American education that is the issue.

We are to focused on providing a diverse, multi-cultural view of the world (in my subject in particular) that we lose out on a good deal of what we are actually trying to teach. Kids don't know where France is, but I can assure you that just about every one of them knows what the Eiffel Tower is.

The paradox is that the more American students are pushed to learn about the rest of the world, the controls on curriculum insure such a focused view that the abstracts get lost.

The best way we can help our education systems is to just accept that some students don't fucking care about Shakespeare, Trigonometry, and World History. They are bound to be service industry worker. The problem is, people act like its not OK to end up working as an HVAC tech.

In a perfect world, every student would go to college and be successful, but in reality it's just a pipe dream. We need to stop punishing the schools because of their inability to change human nature.   

[lompocus]

I think more money would help, ***cough pay teachers fair wages cough*** but in the end its the culture of American education that is the issue.

We are to focused on providing a diverse, multi-cultural view of the world (in my subject in particular) that we lose out on a good deal of what we are actually trying to teach. Kids don't know where France is, but I can assure you that just about every one of them knows what the Eiffel Tower is.

The paradox is that the more American students are pushed to learn about the rest of the world, the controls on curriculum insure such a focused view that the abstracts get lost.

The best way we can help our education systems is to just accept that some students don't fucking care about Shakespeare, Trigonometry, and World History. They are bound to be service industry worker. The problem is, people act like its not OK to end up working as an HVAC tech.

In a perfect world, every student would go to college and be successful, but in reality it's just a pipe dream. We need to stop punishing the schools because of their inability to change human nature.   

An idea would be to allocate funding and resources to schools based on their current academic level and output of graduates. I.E. Funding to X school wouldn't be cut because they failed to reach the standards of Y school because X school's area is in a much more rural and poorer area than X. In a way it makes sense, but it totally screws over a small but highly skilled percentage of the students in the area.

I'm sure you know what that would lead to. So, there's got to be another way (and the cause aint the myth that every single american must automatically be 'ignorant' about everything going on around them).

[Nevyen]

Oh i agree and we have technical colleges and appreticships in the trades here to support such diversity, the goverment funds and seeks to build that area as much as the next, but we still feel even the most rudimentary View of the world is important to place one self in perspective.

What gets me is that even the most basic australian will know about thier global enviroment, be very proud of thier country but still know that thier greatness is built on the souls of other from other nations and cultures that goes to create our nation.

[Wraith547]

Oh i agree and we have technical colleges and appreticships in the trades here to support such diversity, the goverment funds and seeks to build that area as much as the next, but we still feel even the most rudimentary View of the world is important to place one self in perspective.

What gets me is that even the most basic australian will know about thier global enviroment, be very proud of thier country but still know that thier greatness is built on the souls of other from other nations and cultures that goes to create our nation.

Realistically that education isn't really obtained here until one goes to college.

However I will do my small part in churning out roughly 240 Americans a year that are slightly better informed. I have already decided the first 2 weeks of my lesson plan are devoted to grammar and geography, the two things I feel American student fail at the most.

[lompocus]

Oh i agree and we have technical colleges and appreticships in the trades here to support such diversity, the goverment funds and seeks to build that area as much as the next, but we still feel even the most rudimentary View of the world is important to place one self in perspective.

What gets me is that even the most basic australian will know about thier global enviroment, be very proud of thier country but still know that thier greatness is built on the souls of other from other nations and cultures that goes to create our nation.

Realistically that education isn't really obtained here until one goes to college.

However I will do my small part in churning out roughly 240 Americans that are slightly better informed. I have already decided the first 2 weeks of my lesson plan are devoted to grammar and geography, the two things I feel American student fail at the most.

From the most Anyone non-american sucks and we're totally gonna pwn you guys-person: QFT

[salan]

lomp you make no sense with a lot of your posts...

[muha]

I don't think the american school system is that bad. I prefer it to my own. I haven't actually been to school in america,so I don't know what you teach people, but based on what my sister has told me,it sounds quite good.

In my opinion,some American's don't seem to realise that there is a world outside their borders is because the US is huge. I was overwhelmed when I went there.

    Actually the US system is a bit fucked up in my opinion. I live in Canada, and I pretty sure, the US is the same thing, i've also lived in Israel for several years, and they use the same system.

    I finished grade 1 and halfway throghu grade 2 in Ukraine (the country is not that great actually), before I left. In that year and a half, I studied 3 languages, English, Russian and Ukraeninan, midway in grade 1, we were expected to know the multiplication table by heart, and multiply every number from 1 to 10 with no hesitation or thinking, I would assume most europe is like that, so I will add no more.

    Then I moved to Israel, I skilled grade 3, and during grade 4  I was stuck in a jewish-orthodox school, coz my mom did not know were to shove me, and listeneed to some retarded religious fanatic. Anyhow, in there, the classes were pretty much; tora, tanah, exersice, and "work" class were we made some shit with our hands, lunch, tora, tanah, home. (tora and tanah are the jewish bibles).
At grade 5, I transferred to a public-normal school, there, they taught us some extremely basic english, and the math was still at addittion-subtraction levels.

    Here in Canada, I've met many teachers who did not know their own subject. I had philipino, and russian teachers who taught english, they probably have a very godo vacabulary, but that is not helpful, when you got a thick accent and cant put words together.
Most people here graduate after 13-14 grades (sadness), If you want an easy way out, pay $800/semester in a public school, and you get the credit (withoguht actually doing anything).

    Basically, the system is split into 3 categories, the "average", it is very easy, the teachers basically do the work for you, everything is by the book. Then the "advanced" here, you actually learn advance stuff, calculus, chemistry (atomic structures and stuff), physics, geometry, and what not. And there is the rich-kids way out, pay your $800, skip the entire scemester, and get a 95% average.

This system is horrible, I feel like I get stupider with every passing year.

P.S. In Israel, the only geography I got were the countried in the immediate area around Israel, and the medditerranian with all the countries surrounding it, from Turkey and Egypt, to Spain and Moroco (sp?). In Canada, all I learned was the Canadian political and geographical data (provinces and territorries with the capitals, and soils, eco systems and plnat types).

[Nevyen]

Its gets better ......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE&feature=related

and this scares me .....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFJKQq9tLI8&feature=related

[Apex]

Those two videos showed me that you should only establish democracy once people are smart enough for it.