New CoH Gameplay Beta

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[GamerAndy]

***** Stug: it won't make a difference though. That just means it will live a little longer. It still won't destroy the enemy tank or even harm it. Until they reduce the aim time, the stug is still going to be useless vs every allied tank.

***** Brother G.

lol what are you even talking about
a competent axis player can go toe to toe with a upgun sherman and win as it is now!  if you have 2 stugs on, you won't even drop below 50%hp on one before you knock out the sherm (for the record, that's 360fue 12pop (1 upgun sherman)l vs. 240 fuel  16pop (2 stugs)    Frankly, it's fine the way it is - if this change goes through you'll just see more and more stug spam in EIR, I already see it at least 1 out of every 2 games (stug spam defined as "a player having no tanks other than stugs and stuhs")

[Kolath]

I agree, AmPm turned me on to the wonder of the StuG and it is quite great.  Especially one you get the mg42 upgrade, pairs of StuGs work wonders.

I still recall with pride my StuG and upgunned puma combo that single-handedly killed a croc, two shermans, and an M10 and went from vet 1 to vet 3 before succumbing to an AT gun.

[GamerAndy]

Currently stug does 150% of its 87.5 main gun damage when fighting a sherman (131.25 damage)  and has a 75% chance of penetrating
Compare this to the sherman (no upgun) which does 100% of its 87.5 main gun damage (87.5) vs a Stug, and has a 43% chance of penetrating

Or the Upgun sherman which has 100% of its 87.5 main gun damage and a 85% chance of penetrating

The moral of this story is that shermans lose to stugs 9 times out of 10 - For EIR's purposes, this buff is not needed in any way shape or form, and the cost on Stugs is already too low - should be brought into parity with M10's at 170FU      It is entirely possible for a skilled axis player to almost entirely knock out their need for spending any MU on AT, bring 12 stugs to the game, and pump every little bit of ammo into anti-infantry - this is only possible because stugs are so insanely cost effective - Given current costs a player can literally suicide 3 stugs into every sherman (assuming allied player only fields shermans, and no crocs) and still come out ahead in the cost:benefit

[GamerAndy]

FYI, a stug hitting a sherman does the same damage as a panther hitting a sherman.   When did the 150% damage vs. sherman multiplier get added?  I never noticed it before

[Unkn0wn]

I'm on the fence. Stugs used to be at 170F and higher and experience just taught us that no one bothered getting them, it'll all depend on how much difference this buff really makes. With these buffs however, they'll need a price increase regardless. It will likely not be right away, since the devs said they were not making any changes untill 2.0, which means we might have a long period of 'Stug unbalance' & 'Stug spam' ahead of us.

[Kolath]

Well, but keep in mind that these balance changes aren't going into vCoH for a while yet since they are just on the beta server.  So we have at least some time before having to worry about the affect on balance.

That said, I agree that stugs could maybe use a bit of a fuel price increase.

[AmPM]

The STuG change is really rather meaningless as far as EiR goes. It can already more than handle a Sherman in a front to front contest, so it gets slightly better at it with this. The STuG's weaknesses are not changed which is ATGs and manpacked AT weapons.

Please note the other tank destroyers do not get modified vs the STuG, the M10 and Firefly will still hit pretty hard.

What I was never sure of, is why the STuG was 120fu and not 160 like the STuH (which I think is a little overpriced for such a specialist vehicle that can't hit moving infantry). STuG to 140, STuH to 140 for testing!!!

[CaptainAmerica]

stuka nerf is good. Its cooldown is incredable low for its pop of 5.
The stug one does worry me the most. ALot of EIR players main tank is the Stug and being so cheap it could prove even more effective than it is. Price increase should fix it.

[UnLimiTeD]

The StuH knows balistics, it CAN hit moving infantry.
But yeah, the Stug needs to be more expensive, especialy after that change.
Think of Vet3 Sideskirts, only weakness will be it's rear then.
AND: A Sherman, best of course an upgunned one, can beat a StuG, be it with luck or with a Sticky doing extra damage.
In my last game I could kill a Stug with a slightly damaged Sherman that did not face the Stug it's front for the half fight.
The Sticky reduced Stug health to to level of the Sherman, and it died with the Sherman at nearly half health.
In vCoH this would be totally unfair, but in EiR, Stugs are cheaper.
As we probably wont change StuG armor, we should atleast raise the price.

[GamerAndy]

The STuG change is really rather meaningless as far as EiR goes. It can already more than handle a Sherman in a front to front contest, so it gets slightly better at it with this. The STuG's weaknesses are not changed which is ATGs and manpacked AT weapons.

Please note the other tank destroyers do not get modified vs the STuG, the M10 and Firefly will still hit pretty hard.

What I was never sure of, is why the STuG was 120fu and not 160 like the STuH (which I think is a little overpriced for such a specialist vehicle that can't hit moving infantry). STuG to 140, STuH to 140 for testing!!!

STuH is devastating in the right hands, the price is just fine where it is lol  - it's a mobile piece of artillery with nice range and devastating damage if it hits

[puddin]

Stugs need a price increase now more than ever but apart from that sounds like too many people still playing the scheldt.

Its front armor only, On a slow, forward firing tank only... Honestly, how many people attack it from the front and take the hits in EIR?  Not many because repairs take forever. 

its still only 400 Health, Slower then an M-10, side and rear armor just a weak.  And no turret. 

AP roudns will still penetrate.  along probly with regular AT gun shells. 

I still have yet to see more then maybe 4 stugs on most teams i play with and hormally they get rocked.

[Sach]

Stugs are too cheap irregardless of this patch is my point. Stugs are the cheapest and by far most cost effective method of non man packed AT and thats not even taking in to account their AI abilities. As someone who used 4 stugs in his company until recently I assure you that strong front armour is all you need 90% of the time.

[GamerAndy]

Stugs are too cheap irregardless of this patch is my point. Stugs are the cheapest and by far most cost effective method of non man packed AT and thats not even taking in to account their AI abilities. As someone who used 4 stugs in his company until recently I assure you that strong front armour is all you need 90% of the time.

Agreed
flanking and circlestrafing with a sherm is good in theory, but in actual application its not usually feasible - If the rotation speed on the stug was nerfed then it would make sense, but stugs are such low pop that its very rare to run across one unsupported - For the same pop as a sherman you can have a Stug and a Pak gun.

Stugs are *significantly* more effective at their job than M10's merely because they have such good frontal armor - the problem with M10's is that they go down in 2 hit from a pak out of cloak or 3 hits from a schrek, that's pretty dang quick - compare this to a stugs performance vs. bazookas, shermans, etc.   It takes RRs or AT guns to knock through its frontal armor

And somebody mentioned that stugs are slow.... Except no they're not, they're max speed is 5 as opposed to a sherman at 5.2 - If we're talking about incremental numbers, it should be noted that the stug accelerates faster than the sherman at 1.7 as opposed to 1.6.   The point is, that speed is arguably identical

If the stug stays at its bargain basement price of 120fu then it needs a nerf, frankly I'm confused why it does 150% damage vs shermans - I think fixing that would probably balance it out so a sherman (280fu 12pop) has at least a little better chance of taking out a stug (120fu 8pop)

[[AB]RikiRude]

I only run about 4 stugs in a given company myself, perfect for scarring off crocs, and great for takin down shermans, and great at taking down M-10s with some support. I think atm there should be a price increase on stugs, and there def should be one after that patch comes out. They should be about 140-150 fuel imo.

[Unkn0wn]

I only run about 4 stugs in a given company myself, perfect for scarring off crocs, and great for takin down shermans, and great at taking down M-10s with some support

Which surprisingly pretty much covers every allied tank but the Pershing .

I've said it at the start, Schreck + Stug is probably the most cost effective AT platoon you need.
(Both pop/cost wise)

Allows you to save a lot on munitions (which you can then spend on AI upgrades), that you would otherwise have to spend on PAKs which are expensive... And even with 4 - 6 Stugs, you'll still have about half your Fuel left to spend on stronger, preferably Anti-Infantry tanks.



Also puddin, the 400HP arguement works in both ways. 400HP and good frontal armour makes it very repair efficient. At 1 RB + 1 Pio the Stug will only take about 5 minutes to repair, as opposed to a Sherman that will on average take 10 minutes to repair! (This is with 1 engineer + Repair Spec)

But then again, Stugs are so dirt cheap and have such good frontal armour (= good durability) that repairing would probably be a waste of time. (Unless they have good vet) I mean, why repair when you got 11 more?

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

repair... then bring on 11 more equaling 12 stugs .

[gneisenau]

Relic -
1. Host Proxy support. The network layer has been re-written to support host relayed traffic. What does this mean? Essentially, if you can connect to the host of the game you can connect to everyone else!

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=194584

A solution for my connection issues? My self imposed exile can come to an end?

[Duvka]

That sounds awsome.

[AmPM]

If someone goes heavy into STuGs it is easy to negate, get 4 ATGs and use some rifles, hmgs and AB if available, game over. STuGs are great at one thing, thats killing tanks relatively efficiently (even then a smart tank commander can keep from getting hit by taking advantage of its LOOONG aim time and going around corners), get them into close or confined spaces and kill them, do not engage with tanks on an open field.

There is a reason I am running a Tiger + p4 and puma's company right now, its that a few of the more adaptable players have started using ATGs instead of tanks as their primary means of killing armor.

[doctorsamuri]

an stug is food for a well placed at gun and clown cars