Time for a historical discussion

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[Crono]

So, if Hitler had let his generals have total command over military operations during the battle of Britain would the allies have launched D day as a successful operation? 

History records that he micromanaged all forces from that point forward in the conflict, and every deployment had his final decision.

So say, also if Hermann Wilhelm Göring had not been the commander of the Luftwaffe would the air operations resulted in a defeat of Britain?  History also records that Britain was on the verge of surrender from joint ops from germany including air raids and V-1 attacks.

My answer is yes.  On the grounds that germany possessed incredible engineering of aircraft for the day, was using jet propulsion aircraft at that point, and as incredible as the spitfire was, the BF-109 was superior in many respects.

I also conclude that if Rommel had been given command of all panzer divisions that the allied advance would have been stopped at the beach and not made it to carentan.

[doink9731]

But if the Allies had a time machine they could have gotten and used Rick Astley to bring about world peace.

[Akranadas]

Britain had one thing that destroyed the Luftwaffe; Radar.

It didn't matter how good the German planes were when the RAF knew where they were at all times and could send squadrons to intercept them. Credit has to go to Dowding and his system of stopping the Luftwaffe.

[Crono]

This is true, but the germans did possess air superiority over britain during the conflict, and if they had capitalized on the attacking the radar installations, which was brought up to Goring, they would have been better able to engage with more freedom.  They also neglected in attacking airfields and mostly concentrated on attacking industrial targets and civilian areas to promote lowering moral.

[Warbirds]

The strategic error there, Akranadas, is that the Germans mistook the radar facilities for civilian use.  It was an extreme blunder, in my opinion, of the Germans to not bomb the facilities, and it was another blunder to stop bombing the airfields and concentrate on London.

In all, blame the German strategists for foolish decisions.

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

I blame Dboz

[Sach]

I expect once the British began bombing German cities the political pressure to retaliate was unstoppable. They were very close to wiping out the RAF as a meaningful force and had they continued to bomb the airfields things would have been different. Having said that, the D-Day landings were difficult enough with no german navy and more or less total air superiority. With a still large and powerful British Navy and the remenants of the RAF I can't see SeaLion going as well.

[Akranadas]

Sea Lion would have been a failure anyway; the British had Greek Fire to throw at the landing craft.

Preparation and patience didn't seem like a German strong point in WW2

[Wraith547]

If you want a good book on the subject, I would highly recommend How Hitler Could Have Won World War II by Bevin Alexander.

It goes through the crucial mistakes that cost Germany the war. It is frightening how close the Germans can to winning the war. The rest of the world should just be glad that Hitler was insane, because we came dangerously close to having, at minimum, a Nazi state controlling most of Europe.

[Crono]

This is true, but if Hitler had had the foresight to give Rommel over all command of german forces the conflict would have been very different, instead he had final say and many Field Marshals, and we all know that a military breaks down with a democratic command structure.

[Armandillo]

And if Stalin was aware of Germany's attack, then the russians would have been prepared, then the war would have ended a lot faster.

Its crazy how all these IFs about Hitler leting his generals make the war fall short on the account that Germany and the Nazi party didnt actually follow the principle "best man for the job", or democratic merit and arguments.
Hitler was the furher, the leader of state and there was no argument, there was no alternative.
He was the charismatic leader, he was suppose to lead because he knew better, and because he had the power to force his will.

The whole "if he only let the generals do their work" doesnt understand a thing about fascism. The whole regiment is being set upon one party and one charismatic figure.

Schultz,

[UnLimiTeD]

If Hitler had no arguments with his generals, they would have advanced after attacking france, and capture or kill several hundredthousand soldiers;
If they wouldn't have killed the civil population in eastern europe that was on their side from start, they would have far better logistics....
Without the nazi regime, Germany would now rule from Spain to the pacific, from norway to arabia.
But without the naziregime they would have never attacked anyone.

Hey, without traitors in their command, Byzantinum would have never fallen to the Osmans, and with better logistics we would still all be ruled by the mongolians.

It's not going to happen.

[AmPM]

Logistics had nothing to due with the Mongol empires collapse =) What did was that his sons couldn't get along after Gengis passed away.

In fact, you could say that the Mongols had the most advanced logistical system in the world prior to the modern age.

[Crono]

I understand what your saying Schultz, but I am promoting a discussion here, I also think that Hitler became more conceited in his age and from that a desire to be the grand leader emerged.  Before that, (and his doc testing those drugs on him), he was a much more calculating and willing individual to allow military to do its job.  It can be said that if any other man had run that party that we all would be conducting this discussion in german.  Ah, and I do want to learn that language, it has such strength in it.

[Crono]

Also, the black plague was right there knocking on there door, and that great logistics system they had, well it moved much more than food and supplies.....

[Smithy17]

  It can be said that if any other man had run that party that we all would be conducting this discussion in german.

Are you saying that Hitler was the absolute worst man for the job?

Also there was still the navy - that would have upset sea lion quite a bit.

Oh, there was dad's army too, the germans were doomed   .

[AmPM]

The Forbidden City in China was built by the Mongol rulers to keep themselves separate from the rest of the people. And yes, they moved the plague, and many many other things (oranges for instance) introducing them to new peoples and cultures.

[Armandillo]

I understand what your saying Schultz, but I am promoting a discussion here, I also think that Hitler became more conceited in his age and from that a desire to be the grand leader emerged.  Before that, (and his doc testing those drugs on him), he was a much more calculating and willing individual to allow military to do its job.  It can be said that if any other man had run that party that we all would be conducting this discussion in german.  Ah, and I do want to learn that language, it has such strength in it.

Well Crono i'm just adding to the conversation.

You cant have Nazism without the leader taking all the decisions.
Hitler would never have given freedom of action and subsequent power to his generals. When youre runnning an absolute regime, you assume control of everything. If you share the power then you might be careful of losing it.

And there was no other guy really for me.
Noone doubts that Hitler had skills and charisma, but his actions are that matter.
His megalomania and paranoia that would led every man in his position im sure, sealed his fate.
Also look at Napoleon, so much better general but he himself failed.

[Rocksitter]

 Plane and simple the Allies out produced the Axis and even though Hitler and the Germans were outnumbered in the France war and Russian war and also the D-Day landings they still managed to have a kill ratio better then the Allies 10 to 1 in German to Russian Tank losses and the numbers for men are much worse so give the Germans credit for lasting as long as they did but make no mistake Germany was not going to win a war with America Briton and the Soviets working  on the same side...

 The Japanese should have kept up the war with Russia then the Russians could not have brought there Siberian army that was there most experienced troops back to the Eastern front to defend Moscow.


 My biggest question is why did Briton and France declare war on Germany but not on Russia for the attack on Poland and also the Russian attack on Finland its amazing how the Germans are looked at has the Aggressors when during the war for France the Russians grabbed more land than Germany on the Eastern front and that is also why Hitler attacked the Soviets ....

 Rocksitter

[CommanderHoltb]

The Japanese should have kept up the war with Russia then the Russians could not have brought there Siberian army that was there most experienced troops back to the Eastern front to defend Moscow.

What would Japan gain if they countiued fighting the Russians in Siberia? Really, Japan would of probably been rolled back if they didn't signed the Non-aggersion pact with Russia. Plus even if Germany won in the end in Russia, the Japanese would only probably gain the Siberian wasteland.

My biggest question is why did Briton and France declare war on Germany but not on Russia for the attack on Poland and also the Russian attack on Finland its amazing how the Germans are looked at has the Aggressors when during the war for France the Russians grabbed more land than Germany on the Eastern front and that is also why Hitler attacked the Soviets ....

The Western Allies were still trying to cling to hopes that Russia will ally to them and attack the Germans (Obviously that didn't happen). Plus it would be pointless to declare a war on someone Much, MUCH larger then your nation is capable to defeat.

Hitler declared war on Russia, because he thought that the Slavics were the "inferior" people and should have their land freed up for the Aryan "Supermen". Obviously he thought that the Russians would be defeated at the end of Summer.