Amerikaner in SS uniform

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[DBSights2]

no... baring a huge asteroid blowing up the Earth, no one is going to take it from us.  Remember, just by virtue of being alive after all the eons of life that this planet has seen, we are some of the most stupendous badasses ever.

The problem w/ American politics is that the president can be reelected.  Make the president accountable to the people, but don't give him the hope of getting back to the top spot so that he is free to make the choices that are politically unpopular but ultimately better for his nation.  Then you will see the long range planning that you hope for.

Nuclear energy is expensive to start up and produces extremely hazardous waste that must be stored for long periods of time in even more expensive facilities.

Surprisingly, oil reserves in America and around the world that were thought to be empty are refilling...

Coal is still the cheapest method of energy production and w/ ionic precipitators, not very polluting.

These high gas prices, they are very likely to fall drastically in a short amount of time.  What we are seeing here is the gouge before the drop.  Saudi Arabia is calling for an investigation because, as a major supplier of crude, they know that there is in fact a glut and abs. no reason for oil to be at such a high ppb.

Im not saying to kill people. Only sterlize genetically inferior at birth.

Yeah, Hitler was a big fan of eugenics too.....

If we switched over to pure nuclear we wouldnt be in the oil panic we are now.

Cars.

[relentless707]

Eugenics is the wrong path to take, Hitler took it to an extreme and by what I said with Nietzsche and Social Darwinism that doesn't promote mass murder and other barbaric methods. Naturally in any Society the stronger people, ie more intelligent, confident etc are the ones more likely to succeed and survive, the less fortunate won't and by promoting that moreso creates a more functional and productive society. One major issue here in the UK for example is the amount of Government funding that is going towards people on Benefits and while there maybe legitimate claims there are many pseudo ones also such as people claiming '' Depression '' when they dont suffer from clinical depression since its become such a generalised term.

At the moment to me at least, it just seems like the stronger in this society are being punished and strongarmed into helping a lot of the less fortunate and pisstakers which is unacceptable - why should a hardworking man or woman have to supply more of their earnings to some person who is unable to, or cannot be arsed to put in their own effort and just expect Handouts ? It defies any logic.

- Schwarzuhr

[Apex]

It is true that we have stopped evolving genetically because we no longer have the pressures of selection on us.  Since the majority reproduce, the majority of genes are transfered to the next generation and the species as a whole sees little change.  We are still evolving culturally.

However, mixed cultures don't work.  I think that Americans had it right when they wanted everyone who lives in America to be American first and foremost.  In Canada, we are fucking this up.  You look at some people wanting to use Sharia Law to police the Muslim community and you can see what is wrong here.  Valuing other cultures just creates a divided country filled with dissent.  Hard to get things done.  Multiculturalism is a failure.  Look at Holland or any Western, multicultural society and see that it also a country with internal divisions.  Especially Holland.  There the Muslims are moving into neighborhoods en mass, electing their representatives to the government, and using the power to undermine the traditions and laws of the nation to further their own ideals.

1. It is wrong that humanity is not evolving genetically anymore. The genepool is uniting. Increasing globalisation leads to increasing transracial marriages. In my oppionion, thats a good thing. Incest, among siblings, produces children that are often weak and have genetic defects. Same with reproduction within a small restricted genepool, which can be observed in remote mountain villages. Concluding from that, children who have parents with very diverse genes, should be very strong. From my personal observation, that is true. The human genepool benefits from interracial marriages.

2. I think it's quite ignorant to say that mixed cultures dont work and that multiculturism is a failure. Of course it can work. My father is a buddhist and my mother is christian. I refuse to believe that it cant work. But with like so many things, people are just too stupid to try properly.

Your example Holland: The hollandish government has absolutely failed in trying to integrate immigrants. From the seventies up to the nineties the government has done little to nothing to integrate immigrants. People were segregated to certain town districts and the most important issue, providing language courses, was not achieved. Without any help from the government, these parts of towns became ghettos. When problems became more and more, the government resorted to repression: Police actions increased, families were torn apart because of expired residents permits. Immigrants have to pass a test where they are asked on how to brew hollandish tea and how long the train take from amsterdam to enschede. All this has just lead to further alienation. For the sake of Holland, the policies of the immigration minister "iron rita" are highly controversial in Holland.

The same can be seen in many countries, which instead of integrating, just let immigrate. That is the problem.

But it can also be seen much better. I live in Berlin, where 30% of the population are from turkish origin. We played them in the semifinals of the Euro Cup. And it was a very peaceful atmosphere, without any violence. Also, the relation between nations and religions is great where I live. If everybody adapts and is open towards the other, multicultural societies can work. They have to work. Do you think we have a choice?

And, I ask you, why should we value Muslim culture?
What have they ever done for the world?
What is worth preserving in their culture that is not already in Christianity?

Then you think of all that Western Culture has done for the world (technology, individual freedoms, democracy) and you have to wonder, isn't it right for us to remove the Muslim culture?

And what the fuck is this bullshit? Does the muslim culture have to suck your dick before you value them? You should respect a culture simply because it is one and not because it gave you your Nikes. Apart from that, when the europeans were still living like barbarians in the woods the muslim culture has given the world great achievements in astronomy, chemistry, mathematics, medicine and physics (things like your numeric system and shit).

As long as someone elses behaviour is not dangerous to you and others than you should respect it. The problem with todays middle east is a combination of political and religious tolitarism. Kind of like the Christian Crusades. But you cannot account the whole muslim culture for the decisions of stupid politicians and crazy mullahs. And how can you possible talk about removing the whole culture for that?
   
Open your eyes!

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

One of the major problems i see about our country is the fact that because our terms only last 4 years most presidents try and accomplish something in their term and dont plan ahead for the future at all. That is the reason we are so in debt. No one seems to plan ahead. Or the current oil crysis. The problem is we need to deal with it now....Plus why are we burning our nations oil and gas to make electricity when we can use nuclear energy...If we switched over to pure nuclear we wouldnt be in the oil panic we are now.

Typical American Isolationist

Were you born in the 30s?

And about the evolutionist part of this thread..sure it may seem cruel now but what happens 3000 years from now when another species claims its dominance over our spieces? It may not seem possible now but just a little change like that changes a lot. With the current way things are going what is going to stop the spread of genetic deasease? Im not saying to kill people. Only sterlize genetically inferior at birth.

You're are getting dangerously close to the issues raised in Gattaca.   

[Crono]

Things are much more complicated than just nations working together for the common good.  Human instinct is that in witch one pursues the propogation of ones genes within the human species.  As cognotive beings we conduct that drive in many different fashions, greed most notably obvious.  If one is to form a government on the basis of peaceful changes in power upon the desires of the majority of society then one must form a system around human nature.  Checks and balances need to be put in place, groups and organizations will need information to perform watchdog functions.  And most importantly you will above all require a highly educated public.  I believe the EU and member states of the west are the closest examples of this.  

In America, as successful as this experiment in democracy is, it is failing under its own weight of beuracracy.  I envision a peaceful revolution if you may in the coming years in this country.  It will involve the public understanding is role and grasping with the knowledge that they possess the ultimate power when it comes to policy making.  This will be shown in a new political party forming on the basis that it listens to the constituency and not to the lobbyists.  I also see a new cooperation forming with the EU in this time, as the US will accept and may even make strides in joining with the EU at some point in time.  

Protection of the weak by educating and giving them the tools to provide for themselves helps all.  As Confuscous said, "give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a life time."

I am also of the school of thought that is religion is a idea that is from the stone age that needs to be removed through education from the human psychie.  It made sense back in a time when we knew little of the surrounding world, but now we have science, religion has very little place in society apart from providing comfort and compassion to human issues as well as a sense of community and a place to teach moral concepts.

Also, religion has NO PLACE whatsoever in political affairs.  When it treads in the political arena it goes from being a benefit to a virus that infects the goodwill of those who wish to provide with ideas that are long since extinct.  One example is of slavery, the southern states condoned based upon the bible but would block legislation on the basis of biblical scripture.  Also during the civil rights movement Jerry Falwell was quoted as saying he would love to support the act but he couldnt on the basis of biblical scripture.

[DBSights2]

Apex, you have clearly misunderstood me and the subject matter that I was discussing.  I apologize if I have offended you.

I am not saying that people of different cultures have any less dignity than their counterparts.  I fully believe in the Vatican's idea that all people, regardless of differences, are born with equal dignity.  It follows from this that all people are deserving of basic respect, and I believe in this as well.

However, I cannot believe that cultures are the same as the people that comprise them.  These are not living beings, but viral ideas passed on from parents to children.  Just as you "refuse to believe" that multiculturalism doesn't work I refuse to believe that cultures have worth just by virtue of existing.  There are cultures that thrive and those that fail.  Cultures that thrive give birth to new ideas and adapt to their surroundings.  A better culture is one that provides its hosts with a better mindset to survive in the world.

So, when I was talking about the Muslim culture being worthless, I was most definitely not saying that a Muslim person is worthless.  As an individual, I respect them as much as anyone else.  What I was trying to communicate is that the Muslim culture itself is worthless.  It has become outdated and irrelevant.   The culture that we today know as Muslim is defined by a rigid set of laws that were useful and applicable millennia ago (Islamic Monks, Golden Age of Islamic Culture).  Back then, their culture was well adapted to the pressures of life and they prospered.  However, now, they are maladapted and unwilling to change.  It is very fair to say that today most advancements and successful people come from the Western European culture (not Western European nations, but the culture that arose in this area during the middle ages) rather than from Muslim culture.  These days, it Muslim culture is most known for the unrest that it generates rather than its prosperity or intellectual acumen.
 

And what the fuck is this bullshit? Does the muslim culture have to suck your dick before you value them? You should respect a culture simply because it is one and not because it gave you your Nikes.

This is my opinion; just like That is yours.  I believe that my culture (and yours)  is something that is worth preserving and, most importantly, promoting.  I am most definitely not one of those people that believes that we should give special treatment to people because of their differences (sex, race, etc...).  Unfortunately, thanks to the apologist nature of multiculturalism,  this is what parasitic (for lack of a better term) cultures feel entitled too.  I believe that multiculturalism sounds great on paper, but is something that only works until a culture takes it seriously.  A great example is of Toronto.  There is an extremely diverse mix of cultures there.  Immigrants understand that, while we encourage them to hold on the their native traditions, we expect them to be Canadians.  These immigrants understand that while they came from another culture, they are now in a different place with a different culture and they work with it for the benefits of all.  (Interestingly, by changing their culture, they change the culture of their host country to make it more in line with their own - adapting) The intent of multiculturalism was to promote this constructive behavior.  However, there are people who look at this doctrine and use it to justify actions that go completely against the spirit of it.  A great example is again from here in Canada.  Indians here feel entitled to land that they sold nearly two hundred years ago and never cared about it until it was developed and profitable.  Normally, their case would be thrown out of court from the overwhelming amount of evidence against them.  However, they are claiming that, by doing so, we would disrespect their culture and its land possession rules.  People are unwilling to act because we would be "disrespecting their culture" and an action against any minority group (even one that is committing crimes) is perceived very negatively. Because of this, Indian's feel as if they are justified in vandalism, trespassing, and detaining citizens.  And no one will do anything about it.  Look around, I'm certain that you can see the stupidity that results from letting other cultures run rampant over ours.

By the way: You parents are individual people, I am talking about the integration of cultures on a much larger scale.  Multiculturalism has been proven to work more often than not on the personal scale [Who's parents aren't from different backgrounds these days?] and so I have no doubt that your parents are very different yet still live together in harmony.  This is very, very different from multiculturalism.

But you cannot account the whole muslim culture for the decisions of stupid politicians and crazy mullahs. And how can you possible talk about removing the whole culture for that?

You are of course talking about the moderate Muslim.  Really, the moderate Muslim is like any Italian or other "good immigrant" in that while they preserve the traditions from their past, they believe in the Western European culture of freedom, knowledge, and prosperity.  Those "stupid politicians and crazy mullahs" are the symptom of radical Islamic ideas and their rage is more a function of fear of their culture changing than anything else.


To end: If all cultures are so great and equally deserving of respect by virtue of existing, and value judgments cannot be made on a culture (they are alllll equal), then do you respect Nazism? Stalinism? Apartheid?  If a culture is a way of thinking, then these examples are all most definitely cultures.

ps.  And don't give me any of that shit about them being bad because of what they did so it was ok to remove them, Islam preaches that everyone who is not Islamic does not deserve to live.  And Muslims have proved that they are more than willing to do bad things. 

[Crono]

The basis of what you're saying comes down to the power those that rule possess.  With a power vacuum going on the middle east, then of course they are against western ideas, those ideas are of intellectualism amd tolerance.  These ideas are very dangerous to those in power.  What happens when you strip the power one has possessed from them?  They fight, and they fight hard to keep that power, and in doing so do unbelievably despicable things to keep that power, up to and including sacraficing the lives of those that follow them.  Saying muslims are the only group doing this is slightly ignorant.  This is going on with all cultures and groups in the world right now.  A good example of this in the christian world is that of Ireland.  Also look at before the end of WW2, the jews were committing these acts against the rightful owners of the land, the Palestinians.  I am sorry to say but the conflict in Israel is a result of the western powers belief in their superiority.  I believe we should never have given Israel to the jews, they had no right to the land because they lost it to the muslims over a millenia ago.  As much progress as the west has made in many areas, were no better than the muslims in many respects.  We still hold to "cultural" beliefs under the judeo-christian concept of the world.  Before we can even consider "multiculturalism" then we all need to take a step back and look at from all perspectives.

[Apex]

In response to DB:

Alright. I now understand what you mean. The contents of this thread (sterilising the genetically inferior at birth) has got me on edge.

The way you use the term muslim culture, where islamistic fundamentalistic culture is more appropriate, has caused my reaction. Because a muslim is not a muslim, and muslim cultures can quite differ from one another (Iran, Turkey, Indonesia).

And by talking about the good immigrant and the bad immigrant, you admit yourself that multicultural societies can, if properly guided, work out well.

[Crono]

Also another problem with western culture, namely the US, is that we more and more will not take responsibility for ones actions.  Its always the others fault.  This can be seen the changes in laws due to the insurance companies influence in congress.  Laws such as no fault in car accidents just piss me off something fierce.  Also people sueing fast food chains cause they got fat, or the coffee is too hot, come on please.  They should fine those the public finds exceptionally stupid.  When I have the money i am moving to germany, they have it figured out, plus they have the best beer in the world.

[DBSights2]

APEX:

Yes, "good immigrant"/"bad immigrant" was my way of illustrating my belief that cultures can mingle and prosper.  While this is the spirit of multiculturalism, the implementation that we use today fails at actually allowing this to happen.  Instead we see the problems.  So I believe in multiculturalism, but as many cultures contributing to create one superior culture instead of the popularist notion of several cultures existing wholly independent together (I know its a contradiction, but its what many believe and this contradiction is probably the root of several of the problems.)

CRONO:

No, Israel was a very good idea.  After the holocaust, the free world really had no choice but to give the Jews a homeland.  Talk about preventing it from ever happening again only goes so far.

Removing Israel will not cure any of the tensions in the region, more likely they'll just find something else to express their rage on.  The problems are deeper than a land dispute.  Most importantly, Israel gives us a powerful ally in the region that believes in democracy and freedoms and is willing to fight for their safety.

Stupidity may suck, but the grass is not always greener on the other side  :/

Also, I hear that capitalism has been kind of vilified in Europe, eh?

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

I lol at the American hate that once again shows up in a thread....I mean seriously why is it OK to make fun of us but the minute we say something about Europe we get trashed? The same can be said about many other countries and such, but the fact is that you are basing what you said over 1 or 2 cases that got overly publicized. I mean hell if we are talking about Israel and the Nation of Palestine why don't they get brought up into the "one won't take responsibility for their actions". Sigh, this is why there will be no world government, because we are all vastly different, and all have different beliefs, a world government will cause more fighting then there is already. Would a world government be good, idk, I mean how can you govern the ENTIRE WORLD?

[Crono]

In response to Bodybag. 

I am an American, I hail from the great state of SD.  I serve in the military and am a very well informed citizen of the electorate.  I a plan on running for public office one day, and yes, I am progressive.  I can happily bash my country for the things that are wrong with it because I also know that I have the power to change them.  Thats the beauty of this nation, we have a constitution that allows the people to make changes they feel need to happen.  We also have a very corrupt president that has done nothing but ruin this country after all the good Clinton had done for us.  So yes, this country has gone down the shitter, but we will be back and much better in the future for we will have learned from our mistakes.

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

I am aware of the fact that both you and I live in the United States. All I'm saying is that you are stating cases that were rare and that got more publicity then it is worth. I just hate that shit how people make references to a rare event and use that as a stereotype.

PS: I give you a high five for acknowledging that Bush is a compete FuckHead.

[DBSights2]

Who do you think will make a better president?

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

Do you mean McCain or Obama? To be honest neither are that great, but I would like to see Obama in the White House. Obama seems to have the policies that benefit the middle-working class as opposed to McCain's policies that I've seen to benefit the wealthy more.

[Lt_Apollo]

he way i see it there is only 3 ways that such a world government could exist.

1. domination: a individual fraction of any origin becomes the dominant culture in the area and assimilation the weaker ones via force or social actions.

this creates one society with the same beliefs and create a highly unified entity. but not a very socially divers society.

stability:High

2. unification: for mutual benefits the area is united for reason such as trade, to rally against a threat, or common interest.

while strong while that need exist individual beliefs will ultimately be it downfall.

Stability:Low

3. statesmanship: a area is united under one flag but instead of one common goal it is very fictionalized with individual states with there own beliefs serving as independent entities within the nation

a huge variety of opinions and ideas makes for a conflict of interests but also allows for a hugely divers nation that will have much better social results than the previous ideas. as well as a more open look at most subjects.

Stability:Varying

we all want a forum of 1 where every one has the same interests but that is very unlikely, one thing that may happen is that 1 ever started to form it would invoke 2 as other fractions united to meet this threat. humanity is simply to fractional for this to work.

number 2 is easy it happens all the time, ally with your nabors and for your own benefit, but once that benefit is gone bye bye alliance

number 3, now that's what i think is the best chance of unification. it allows us to be fractional but keeps us united we get our voice and our independence to make our own choices while we may never unamously agree debate brings out the best in us giving us the best solution to any problem.

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

But the ultimate problem is this: We don't like each other. Don't yell at me but it is true, we as humans do not like one another, so unless there is a divine intervention a world government will not occur.

[DBSights2]

*beam of light shines down over Bodybag's house*

[twzcatinhat]

Look up their in the sky its a Death Star 

"you left it open and i had to finish it for you "

[Lt_Apollo]

we want others to have our ideas and share our beliefs that's why we have wars. that's why i believe 3 is our best rout. option 3 is like the US, UN or EU. an agreement of states for benefit the greater nation. we can hate all we want but we unite if its for our benefit.