Secrets Revealed 4 - Availability

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[Absolution]

I have a great fear that the heavy tanks will constantly cost a lot more PPs than they earn.

[AmPmTLS]

You haven't tested it because you don't have a persistent environment yet.

Like any other MMO style game, if its not balanced certain builds become optimal for everyone, because if you aren't using it you will lose to an equally skilled player that is.

When you release info on the veterancy I'll have more on that subject. Needless to say, some units better have some amazing vet tables to warrant spending PP on a very fragile unit that can't kill much. It ties in with Availability and Doctrines, but since it all being released piecemeal and my post will get deleted if I say anything about it.

Either way, unless you balance out the PP gameplay gain across the board, you will see very stagnant builds once the community grows a bit.

[AmPmTLS]

adjusting amounts and cost of availability will have instant effects.

You do know that this is exactly what it is intended to do right?

BEFORE THIS: BUY ALL 1 UNIT.

AFTER THIS:  BUY 1 UNIT TILL IT COSTS PP, decide if you want to make that sacrifise, or DIVERSIFY.

working as intended? yes.

Yea, you buy up to the max for the most efficient units, then spend the rest on anything else. Thats the problem, its not balancing the cost of the unit, its not adding good choice to it. It makes you limited, but instead of making the unit less desirable or less efficient or other units more efficient, you just limit the number.

This ensures that people get as many of that unit as they can, and spend the rest other places.

So stop saying you are even attempting to balance, that isn't balance, that's just "oh shit, we don't know how to make these units competitive or these units less so, so we'll just limit the numbers".

In essence, the units will still be better than the others for what you spend, you just can't have as many.

And no, heavy tanks will get suicided more than now, especially if you get vet on them.

[anthony210]

You havent even played it yet.  Lets atleast see how it works before we start whining about it.

[salan]

I made a mistake on teh first page, changed to the following:


-ALL Prestige spent is REFUNDABLE if you sell the item back, if it DIES its price is permanent.

[HeartBreakOne88]

Hmm. I just realized that this does nothing to stop anybody from having an all airborne company. There needs to be a hard cap on the number of “out of supply” troops you can buy (either on the unit itself or on the number of “out of supply” troops in the company). 

What is the limit going to be on elite infantry like airborne, rangers, stormtroopers and commandos?   

Im use Airbourne as my mainline infantry  rather then rifles, if the "availiblity" is the same as omg , as long as you dont spam units and send them to there death constantly you wnt notice anything. and stop complaing about ab , AB are easy to take out with he majority of axis units...ostwinds/pumas/kch/ect, yes they have fire up but you can really onluy use that once

[salan]

Im use Airbourne as my mainline infantry  rather then rifles, if the "availiblity" is the same as omg , as long as you dont spam units and send them to there death constantly you wnt notice anything. and stop complaing about ab , AB are easy to take out with he majority of axis units...ostwinds/pumas/kch/ect, yes they have fire up but you can really only use that once

You will find there to be a large difference between OMG's hard capping system, which is based on EIR's old system, and the current EIR:R soft capping system.

and the availability of units is directly different due to it being a completely different and innovative system.

[EscforrealityTLS]

Will standard infantry (Riflemen Grens) be effected by this soft cap, PP system?

[salan]

I believe it says that all units will be effected, yes.

[Kolath]

Will standard infantry (Riflemen Grens) be effected by this soft cap, PP system?

Yes, but they will have a proportionally higher number of in supply units.

[EscforrealityTLS]

Are you planning on keeping companies the size they are now with availability or are they to get a proportionate increase or decrease?

This seem like a really nice step in the realism direction with out effecting balance in game and it would appear lend its self nicely to a TLS type campaign! hmmmm, sexy.

[Skaevola2]

Hmm. I just realized that this does nothing to stop anybody from having an all airborne company. There needs to be a hard cap on the number of “out of supply” troops you can buy (either on the unit itself or on the number of “out of supply” troops in the company). 

What is the limit going to be on elite infantry like airborne, rangers, stormtroopers and commandos?   

Whats the problem with that? The entire airborne doctrine is effectively centered on AIRBORNE.

[EIRRMod]

Because when I asked EIRMod about it, he replied they were all 1 PP for more.

I made the suggestion of changing that to Salan a few days ago, so I hope it goes in. It would fix a lot of the issues with the system.

Incorrect AMPM, I would never tell you that - as it was *I* who made the system from scratch.
Units will have a different PP cost depending on the unit type and its rarity.  '1' is for base troop types.

Please refrain from taking small parts of a discussion and applying them as a whole to your arguments.

[Skaevola2]

I like the idea behind availability, but please no hard caps. If you can play an oddly designed company well, you shouldn't be forced not to. I don't want availability to force us all into similarly designed companies, and remove all the originality out of the game.

[EIRRMod]

I like the idea behind availability, but please no hard caps. If you can play an oddly designed company well, you shouldn't be forced not to. I don't want availability to force us all into similarly designed companies, and remove all the originality out of the game.

There are no 'Hard' caps, however, if you do not have the PP to buy the unit (When its In supply, or Oversupplied) - then you straight out cant buy it.

[Wildfire]

sounds good, thanks for laying the smack down moddy

[31stPzGren]

Your system will just encourage more stacking and more benefits to good players than to poor players. The intention is good but I'm pretty sure the end result won't be;

i. Players looking to maximise the system will take the most OP/Cost-Effective Doctrine abilities.

ii. After taking enough doctrines, they will start playing games to keep vet and rake up PP, aiming to keep units alive.

iii. In order to keep units alive and win easier, stack & bash noobs.

iv. Proceed to buy more "OP" units with PPs gained and bash more noobs.

v. Realised that the new system of match ups does not reward so much per noob bash and decides to do more noob bash to gain the same amounts of benefits as old EiR.

vi. Fighting good players has a greater negative consequence and everyone tries to avoid them.

While I may be looking on the "negative" side of things, it is better to prepare for the worst and hope for the best rather than to think everything will work out fine.

[MannfredvonRitter]

Sounds like it will punish playing with a nub.

Stack/Noobstomp: Keep units, get more rez bonus's, get more doctrines, buy more vet, more cool units.
Help Newbie/Fight Vet: Get PP units raped, spend 2-3 games stomping to get more.

[anthony210]

You guys are forgetting something, with the prestige ranking system you will not gain as much PP if you noobstomp all day long.

The ranking system will encourage high ranked players to play against people close to their rank otherwise they wont gain as much pp as they could.

[31stPzGren]

You guys are forgetting something, with the prestige ranking system you will not gain as much PP if you noobstomp all day long.

You are forgetting something. READ MY POST PROPERLY.

v. Realised that the new system of match ups does not reward so much per noob bash and decides to do more noob bash to gain the same amounts of benefits as old EiR.

It is about risk versus reward. The risk is too high against good players while the reward may be low against noobs, but there is nearly no risk.

Learn to read before you post.