Airborne Divisions and the Campaign Map

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[DasGuntLord01]

The following occured to me during the hours of 12:00pm and 1:00pm on the day that I was playing Vanilla CoH.  Events occured in real time.

I love CoH, but the only thing (that I can think of, off the top of my head) that they got wrong was airborne drops.  To my knowledge (and do correct me if I'm wrong) single squads never jumped into battle by themselves.  (I understand that some commando raids involved this, but EiR does not involve commando raids.  Or maybe it will?  Chalk that up as an idea.)

I am under the impression that, like at Sicily, Salerno, Normandy, and Holland, entire divisions dropped in simultaneously.

So, that got me a thinkin'.  Will it be possible for entire airborne divisions to drop into battlefields behind enemy lines, presumably to cut off supply to enemy divisions at the front (assuming, of course, the target location is within a certain distance of the airfield).  This would allow for excellent strategic planning (at least on the part of the allies.)

The airborne division would be cut off, supplied only by airdrop, and would have to hold out untill freindly units could push through, opening up the supply lines and filling the gap.

The battle itself would, naturally, involve airborne units only, and the airborne player would have to use his wits, cunning, and many supply drops to gain victory.  I dare say it would make for a very, very fun game.

What say you, Devs?

[CmdrKinslayer]

I agree, this would indeed be an interesting idea, but it has a few problems.

The biggest problem is that fully airborne armies are a complete failure.  You've experienced this against me, so you should know  .  The only way I can see this working is sort of like the single player campaign V1 raid map.  For anyone who hasn't played single player, it was basically a map where you were using almost solely paratroopers to take out an entire installation with MGs, tanks, infantry, flaks, etc.  Granted; you DID get vehicle reinforcements later in the battle which were an IMMENSE help, but still, you relied mostly on airborne unless you're completely boring and just waited at the reinforcement point for all your reinforcements to arrive.

Getting it to work would require possibly unlimited/very large manpower resources (for reinforcement, as you can't exactly "retreat" in the middle of enemy territory) on the allied/paratrooper side, while the axis side would have to have limited, but still more/better combat assets, as a mass paradrop is a massive risk, but can have a massive payoff as well.  An objective system would also have to be implemented for this, which isn't a bad thing at all.

However, the ending fact is that it would cause a lot of work for something that isn't that important to the mod's gameplay.  I would love to see it in a future version, and the Axis would then be able to do it as well with the addition of the Fallschirmjäger in Opposing Fronts, but I really don't see it as something the developers should focus on until they have the core gameplay set up and running well.

[Demonic Spoon]

This is already simulated to some extent with the Air Raid ability-the Airborne gets to drop in rapidly, before anyone else.

In fact, when I was playing teamgames with TheDeadlyShoe, he used this to devastating effect- as soon as the game started, he would have a huge forward position set up near the enemy's spawn to hold them back while I, and the other partner if it was a 3v3, would come up. The end result is we have almost total map control and have them locked near their spawn.

[DasGuntLord01]

The biggest problem is that fully airborne armies are a complete failure.

There is no reason why fully airborne armies should be a complete failure.  Airborne ATGs deal with tanks, supply drops give mortars and MGs, and airborne themselves are very effective when correctly microed (just like any other unit).  A fully airborne army should (theoretically) have everything it needs.

Getting it to work would require possibly unlimited/very large manpower resources (for reinforcement, as you can't exactly "retreat" in the middle of enemy territory) on the allied/paratrooper side, while the axis side would have to have limited, but still more/better combat assets, as a mass paradrop is a massive risk, but can have a massive payoff as well.

A very large manpower resource would be the allied player/s resonsibility.  As I understand it, the highest level commander divies resources to his immediate inferiors, and they to their inferiors, and so on.  An airborne invasion would, by necessity,  require the airborne division/s involved to stay behind the lines for several campaign turns, gathering as much resources as possible to ensure a successful operation.

Following from this, whatever the Axis commander has for this operation should not be nerfed by the gameplay type.  It is the axis commanders responsibility to keep his forces well supplied, and the allied forces responsibility to avoid dropping airborne into a slaughter.  (Another tangent idea.  Will there be some sort of intelligence gathering?  If so, sweet.)

This is the benifit of having the strategic resources system that you guys have been talking about: supply will actually make a huge difference to gameplay.

[Unkn0wn]

Currently you are capable of putting the maximum popcap worth in Airborne troops in one squad and dropping them into battle.

This will result in up to 4 squads (but depending on popcap) to jump into the field. And as mentioned with air raid they can do this before the axis enter which makes it a great ability.

[DasGuntLord01]

Currently you are capable of putting the maximum popcap worth in Airborne troops in one squad and dropping them into battle.

This will result in up to 4 squads (but depending on popcap) to jump into the field. And as mentioned with air raid they can do this before the axis enter which makes it a great ability.

That's all well and good, but my original question was about airborne units engaging enemy companies that are NOT in an adjacent territory, making a greater level of longer-term strategic planning possible.

[minehold]

I see one problem with this... In COH there is no supply lines so airborne would be much more powerful.

[DasGuntLord01]

Ah, but in EiR there are supply lines on the Campaign Map, which determine the long term supply of companies, devisions, or regements.  If an airborne division is in the middle of nowhere, and not in direct supply, then it's combat effectiveness over multiple campaign turns will be affected.

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

and so would the enemys if they mangaged to cut off a vital supply line.

[DasGuntLord01]

and so would the enemys if they mangaged to cut off a vital supply line.

Precisely.  It's a high risk operation for potentially high gains.  A seccesful airborne drop at a vital point in the enemy supply lines could result in the airorne division in question getting slaughtered.  On the other hand, if they survive, they could potentially disrupt supply for most, if not all, of the enemies front line units, leading to several decisive allied victories.

Having said that, the airborne unit will most likely get destroyed, unless steps are taken by other allied armies to break through the lines to re-open supply.  That's why i would only consider dropping my airborne in behind enemy lines if it was part of a larger operation.

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

the axis could do the same thing with a load of stormtroopers...

[acker]

...Don't mirror Stormtroopers/Airbourne raids, please. Airbourne were meant to seize the ground they were dropped on. Afterwards, following divisions on land would break through to them. Stormtroopers simply inflicted lots of pain on the enemy before disappearing to wreak more havoc (well, I think this is what Relic tried to do with Stormtroopers).

In other words...

Airbourne=massive amounts of resources, far away drop zones, basically a gamble.

*note*: When the WarMap comes online, could Supply Drop allow Airbourne commanders to supply surrounded troops (those with no contact with friendly lines) for...200% of the normal costs?

Stormtroopers=small amounts of resources, relatively close to friendly lines, less of a gamble.

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

ok, so how are the axis going to disrupt enemy supplyes, when op comes in they can use the Fallschirmjäger since they do drop in a cirtain docterine...

[DasGuntLord01]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Germany abandon airborne operations after greece? (or something like that).

No, the axis players don't NEED to have airborne (untill the falscirmjager get here), as long as they have a power that is different altogether, but evens it out.

I'm thinking something blitzkrieg like...

[Demonic Spoon]

Yup, they did.

[DasGuntLord01]

Yup, they did.

Excellent. 

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

i know they didn't do any drops after greece, but if you can in OF then why not?

atm im stuck for a axis version of the idea...

[DasGuntLord01]

Maybe Axis can Launc V1 and V2 rockets at allied supply bases?  (Grasping at straws, here.)

That's something else I didn't think about.  Air power!  A vital component to any modern military operation!  But I must remind myself that this isn't WWII online...

[Demonic Spoon]

Maybe Axis can Launc V1 and V2 rockets at allied supply bases?  (Grasping at straws, here.)

That is actually a really good idea. I'd make that its own thread

[DasGuntLord01]

Maybe Axis can Launc V1 and V2 rockets at allied supply bases?  (Grasping at straws, here.)

That is actually a really good idea. I'd make that its own thread

Really?  It's not often I come up with good ideas.

But I won't make it it's own thread just yet.  It was merely intended as a possible way of balancing the allied airborne raid ability.

AND on this topic, and I just realised that it's balance already.  The very nature of the allied airborne raid means that it's balanced.  The risk or potential loss of an airborne raid balances the gain if the airborne raid succeeds.  If the raid fails, the allies loose a whole company.