Aurborne Doctrine suggestion

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[scrapking]

Airborne infantry availability is too low for a variety of reasons.

They are at the same availability as other elite infantry, and they are not truly equal to them.  Airborne companies are  dependent on Airborne Rifle squads for flavor, and the squad itself is not a true elite infantry squad.  The available number should be increased to at least double what it is now 8 by default, and +4 with the 30pp Airborne unlock.

In the past the thing that really made Airborne so powerful was their unique and potent vet bonuses, and moving forward this has been changed.  If there is a fear of a player fielding too many RR squads, the cost could be increased, or perhaps RR squads could be turned into a separate unit, with its own availability.

But 4 is honestly not enough for an Airborne company to have the flavor of one.  I realize this could also be addressed through doctrine selection, which may not be a bad idea, but for one it would be less interesting to start off and develop it that way, and secondly, I don't think any other company really pays through doctrine development to field its basic unit.  And default, unupgraded Airborne squads really are only basic units.

[CafeMilani]

so u wanna run with a AB blob over the map again, huh?

AB IS elite inf, they have unique abilities

[FootInmouth]

AB are not elite inf really. Without RRs they are basically a more expensive, insignificantly better rifle squad, which gets fire up once in a blue moon. 4 is waaay too few to make an airborne company viable.

[CafeMilani]

spend some PP and get 8!

[Bubblesatan]

I would say Airbornes are the equivalent of Grenadiers, while riflemen are the equivalent of volksgrenadier.

[scrapking]

Here's the thing.

Let's take a look at Blitz doctrine for example.  For playing that doctrine, they get Stormtroopers, a StuH, a Tiger.  Those are the units which define playing a Blitz company.

Airborne units define playing an Airborne company.  You get basically 2 additional unit types.  3 if you consider RR Airborne to be its own unit.  The Airborne squad is a slightly better rifle squad, and in terms of anti-infantry capabilities the only thing which separates it from a standard rifle squad is fire-up and as said "insigificantly" better stats.  With a BAR, the rifle squad is going to be better in a firefight - and both sqauds can get grenads as upgrades.

Airborne squads are not the best investment for PP to purchase additional squads since if you lose ANY Airborne squad, you have lost PP.  

If Airborne are elite infantry, they are decisively the weakest elite infantry of all units considered that.  Rangers, KCH, FJs, Stormtroopers, Commandos - all better.  Granted some of those units are better because of upgrades, and therefore come with a heavy muni cost, but AS infantry units go, Standard Airborne Infantry squads are even inferior to MP40 volks, or LMG Grens.

The only way that Airborne infantry stand out is

1)RR, which admittedly would need to be prevented from "spam-mode",

2)Fire-up, which isn't as useful without a close assault weapon like an SMG - and is on a longish cooldown, AND now comes with an exhaustion penalty and finally

3) of course the paradrop ability - which while useful can also get you in trouble.  And it doesn't really do anything to further the combat effectiveness of the unit, it has to be timed and used at the right place to have any reasonable effect.


I repeat again, one of the things which made Airborne so scary in previous EiR was their incredibly strong vet tables.  Vet 0 or 1 AB squads were "insignificantly" better than normal rifle squads.  Vet 2, and especially 3 were unkillable roving sqauds of destruction.  Those vet tables have been entirely revamped.

And finally, even doubling their availability to 8 will not exactly suddenly make the unit truly spammed or blobbed.  But it would make an Airborne company feel (more) like one.  Although controlling RRs might be a good idea.

And PS, fuck all of you who think "blobbing" isn't a realistic or reasonable tactic anyway.  Join the fucking military and find out that single squads don't operate alone in a tactical environment.  Platoon level tactics are where everything happens.  

[MannfredvonRitter]

The military doesn't blob. Blobbing is for fucking dipshit noobs. No good player blobs, good players use cover and move tactically.

As ex military, no first world country 'blobs' third world countries with human wave strategies blob to attack.

[Lt_Apollo]

so let me get this strait, you want your invincable paradroplable human wave back.... i think the devs limited you for a reasion. ok ok i see your point the airborn cap should be set around 8 so that you can suplment your army effectivly to define the doctrine. just remember if they incess that there probly going to incress the cap on falls.....

[Khorney]

Invincible paradropable human wave? did you pay vEiR? wehr infantry blobs were much worse. all they really have going for them are RR's, which we pay through the teeth to get, which is fair enough, but easily susceptible to any kind of assault weapon. i find having an extra squad to drop with my RR team just helps with survivability, so 8 doesn't seem that unreasonable

[MannfredvonRitter]

I didn't see Wehr blobs very often in comparison to Allied blobs. In fact it was only on the odd occasion I saw wehr blobs, effective allied artillery forced German players to spread out more, just a reality. As a result of this, they were forced to use cover instead, to counter their lesser numbers.

German armies also have a lot less units than allied armies and so blobbing was less possible, I say this coming from both sides.

Vet3 AB blobs with RA were nigh on invincible.

[Khorney]

fair enough, i never got vet3 AB by the time EiRR came around, so i can't really comment on that

[CafeMilani]

fair enough, i never got vet3 AB by the time EiRR came around, so i can't really comment on that

but u had AB blobs right?

[MannfredvonRitter]

fair enough, i never got vet3 AB by the time EiRR came around, so i can't really comment on that

but u had AB blobs right?

You had assault nade volks blobs you're not one to bitch lol

[Khorney]

no, i didn't blob them as they would just get hunted by mp40/44/lmg groups, i used them in either 'hit and run' operations where they would drop, destroy target, and retreat before getting wtfpwned by aforementioned roving bands, or use them later on in support of crocs if i got them out safely (which got hit by annoying invisi-paks anyway, but thats another story =P).

my main qualm with AB availability is if you want them to be in any effective formations (ie - 2 squads) that only gives you 2 call ins, which doesn't give you much to use in a match, as i would normally use them when tanks or artillery appeared throughout a game.

although, i will admit to some shameless AB spam i used on the last match i played before EiRR, where massive dropping ensued for tiger bashing

[Unkn0wn]

Mind you the 'invincible AB blobs of doom' stemmed from the fact that the old AB veterancy + AB doctrine bonusses stacked up to make them that good. If any of you have actually played airbourne in EIRR you would realise that they're not the uber assault unit that some of you make them look like. Your perception on AB units is flawed and in dire need of an update to the current situation where the veterancy is not as amazing and the doctrine abilities are not present.

Anyway, just a reminder .