Veterancy Update

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[CafeMilani]

Tommies need regen at some point. They are the most expensive basic inf. Brits healing station has too long reload. Also tommies cant leave trench for healing in other side of the world.

Or give them medkits.

its underpriced! tommies are still the best standart inf in coh, also pwning elite inf-.-

in vanilla they cost 450 MP for a good reason.

[Baine]

What I'd really like to see on the 88 instead of the Penetration: some sort of better splash damage. Because these things will most of the time shoot at infantry and not at armor.

[EliteGrens]

For the Tiger Ace:
Vet 2 buffs it's health to 1.1.
Then vet 3 gives it 1.1 health too, so that means it stacks to 1.2 yeah?

[Unkn0wn]

its underpriced! tommies are still the best standart inf in coh, also pwning elite inf-.-

in vanilla they cost 450 MP for a good reason.

They do not cost 450 MP in vCOH primarily because of their strenght.

What I'd really like to see on the 88 instead of the Penetration: some sort of better splash damage. Because these things will most of the time shoot at infantry and not at armor.

The Flak 88 is primarily an Anti tank/Anti Air weapon, using veterancy to make it better against something it was not designed to be good against would not be the right approach. That would be like giving penetration to the P4 Infantry Support Tank.

[CafeMilani]

For the Tiger Ace:
Vet 2 buffs it's health to 1.1.
Then vet 3 gives it 1.1 health too, so that means it stacks to 1.2 yeah?

no i think its like this:

assuming that a tiger ace has 1000 hp

*1.1 = 1100
again *1.1 = 1210

[EliteGrens]

Well in the last thread it was listed as:
Tiger Ace
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.95
-Vet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Health 1.05
-Vet3 Recieved Penetration 0.9, Sight +5, Health 1.1

[DeadlyShoe]

Thought: Move some of the M10s Vet 2 buffs to vet 1. Vet 2 looks very heavy compared to vet 1. It's not like m10s tend to survive anyway. 

[Khorney]

i'm guessing it's more an incentive to baby sit your M10's, rather than just fast-tracking uberness

[OhSlowpoke]

I am still confused.

Is counter-battery going to be a vet3 exclusive, because I /had/ expected it to be an arty doctrine specialty. Giving it to everybody would be as unfair as giving every doctrine supply drops or air-raids, being an arty specialty.

[DeadlyShoe]

-Vet3 Health 1.1, Cover ability* OR Assault Bonus* (depends on FG42s), Damage 1.1, Extra Panzerfaust

FSJ are the ultimate cover using units.  They should stick to cover ability.  I doubt they'd be able to get to Vet3 without FG42s anyway.

[Baine]

Crocodile
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.9
-Vet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Recieved Damage 0.9
-Vet3 Recieved Penetration 0.8, Sight +5, Damage 1.15

Does the Penetration even affect the flamer of the croc? I mean does Penetration give more dmg vs infantry?

[Fingertrapped]

penetration buff doesnt make it better at killing inf

[panzerjager1943]

Penetration makes it better vs. Light Vehicles. It gets it in vCoH.

FSJ are the ultimate cover using units.  They should stick to cover ability. I doubt they'd be able to get to Vet3 without FG42s anyway.

Because of the way burst works, ambush is useless with the FG42.

howi, vet 3.. penetration 2.0?? is that like a 100 per buff?

Howitzers are known to bounce off of heavy armour with a direct hit. Hopefully this will prevent that.

Updated Cromwell Command Tank.

[scrapking]

Engineers & Pios have "reduced suppression" on their x-mas wish-list.  Also, an "Assault Bonus" at vet3, *if* equipped with flamethrowers would be nice.

Heavy tank vet is generally not as nice as people might like, but I suppose the fear of ridiculous heavy armor is a legitimate one.  They don't really need more penetration as much as some other stat which affects DPS, accuracy, or rate of fire.  Panther in particular would really like "Moving Ability".  Ditto for Firefly.  Or, both would like faster movement speed.

American halftracks, Quads, Bren Carriers & Bren MMGs would all like an armor upgrade similar to the PE halftracks.

I assume that Rangers get Assault bonus with Thompsons, and cover bonus without.  

Jeeps, bikes, kettenkrads, scouts  - does increased sight also increase their stealth detection radius?  if not, then they should perhaps get an increase to that as well.  Kettenkrads would love cloak - if they could vet up at all, that is.

Quad HT wants a suppression bonus more than damage or accuracy, I think.

M8 wants "Moving Ability".

Croc wants something besides penetration.

HMGs of all types would like slightly increased range as well (or increased sight range?)

KCH would like a reduced suppression modifier back.

Can Wehrmacht Officer get an aura at higher vet, instead of assisting a single unit?

All Arty wants penetration, but probably shouldn't have it.  Indirect fire AT is fail, IMO.  Should be for killing static units, support, infantry only.

Pumas & Ostwinds would like "Moving Abilitiy" also.  Ostwind also would like more suppression.  Puma would like either more suppression, OR more penetration, depending on gun type.

StuGs would like faster movement.

Does a Flak 88 really need a penetration increase?  Wouldn't additional range, or rate of fire be more to its liking?  Or maybe splash radius?  I thought its pen was already enough by default.  Also, Cover ability.

British Captains would really like to cover more map area with their buff.  Is adding an additional sector possible?  All bordering sectors?  Is entire map too much?  Can it be changed to an aura instead, which could then be increased with vet?  The sector concept doesn't work equally with all EiR maps, whereas aura radius can.

Cromwell Command Tank, does this thing even shoot?  If it does shoot, 3 pop is way too low for something with tank armor and a tank gun.  If it doesn't shoot, it has no need for offensive vet stats.  Defensive, movement speed, etc, would be more appropriate.

Mortar Commandos would like a vet +10 range buff also, to match Wehrmacht & US mortar ranges.

Mortar Emplacement would also like a +10 range...  in fact it would really like more range without vet...  since it is less mobile.

Churchill croc has an actual fireable main gun, right? So maybe more penetration isn't so bad for this?  If not, then change.

I almost think FJs should get Cover AND Movement Ability...  there really isn't an obvious preference for one over the other depending purely on whether they have FJ 42s or not.  I'm not sure on this one, but it would sort of suck to be compelled into one or the other.  Maybe neither, and immediate paradrop instead of 30 seconds.

PIV IS should not get more penetration, it is an infantry support vehicle, not AT.  More suppression, larger splash, greater rate of fire...not pen.

Marders would like faster turn rates.  And maybe better defense against small arms / MGs.

Mortar Halftrack gets an "extra incendiary round"?  The ability is a cooldown, not # of uses.  And the cooldown is already sort of on the short side.  Perhaps the default cooldown should be raised, and then it can have reduced CD for vet.  Or changed to work by # of uses, and then given additional uses.  Or remain the same with better aoe coverage on incendiary.  I don't know, but not the vet it has now.  Faster movement would also be good.

Wirbelwind would like more suppression and movement ability.

Flakvierling would like more suppression & cover ability.



I tried to not comment so much on balance concerns, since its hard to know yet, but more on correcting undesireable vet bonuses with more desireable ones for that particular unit.  i.e. make them attractive to vet up, make the choice of spending PP on vet not as simple.  

[panzerjager1943]

I assume that Rangers get Assault bonus with Thompsons, and cover bonus without.

Please read first post again. I said things have changed since previous thread.

Mortar Halftrack gets an "extra incendiary round"?

This is a leftover from when it was #uses. Adjusted.

[Mgallun74]

Penetration makes it better vs. Light Vehicles. It gets it in vCoH.

FSJ are the ultimate cover using units.  They should stick to cover ability. I doubt they'd be able to get to Vet3 without FG42s anyway.

Because of the way burst works, ambush is useless with the FG42.

howi, vet 3.. penetration 2.0?? is that like a 100 per buff?

Howitzers are known to bounce off of heavy armour with a direct hit. Hopefully this will prevent that.

Updated Cromwell Command Tank.

ahhh cool.. saw that, hit a tiger last night and nothing.. but it did 1 shot a full power Marder, that was sweet.. Marder was deployed and shooting our tanks, shoot ART and boom 1 hit and toasty! lol.

[scrapking]

I assume that Rangers get Assault bonus with Thompsons, and cover bonus without.

Please read first post again. I said things have changed since previous thread.

Mortar Halftrack gets an "extra incendiary round"?

This is a leftover from when it was #uses. Adjusted.

Yes but the wording in your first post isn't clear.  Instead of "A or B, depends on C", should read "A, unless C, then B"

[panzerjager1943]

Assault Bonus is if the unit has Assault Weapons. Should be fairly clear on which weapon is Assault.

[scrapking]

Also, on some level, EVERY unit should get either cover, assault, movement, or vehicle cover at vet 3, depending on unit type, and / or weapon upgrade.  i.e. what best suits it.

[scrapking]

Assault Bonus is if the unit has Assault Weapons. Should be fairly clear on which weapon is Assault.

One might make more sense, but your wording was not clear.  And with some weapons, FJ42 for example, it will not make as much sense as with say, Thompsons.

And if I read it, and didn't know for certain what was meant, you can rest assured that other people also might not know.  Don't take it personally, just write it better.  :p