[Balancements for U.S.]mgs and mortars only

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[Bubz]

Err I kinda feel the allied hmg is overpriced in terms of manpower, as it is now it costs the same as an axis hmg 270 mp and 40 mu, however, if you want to use it effectively you have to pay an extra 20 mu to buy ap rounds which define better its role and strengths. I would suggest -while keeping the munition price the same- a decrease in manpower price so that you can get 100-200 mp from your 4 hmgs to field an additional rifleman, because as it is now with volksgrenadiers costing 185 mp (I don't know how can you say they are worse than rifles, because they are =) your manpower as allies is bleeding. When someone rushes blob you and you are axis, even if you are a bit late to set up the hmg it suppresses and you get the win rather easily, as allies instead, if you fail to set up when the blob start or even earlier, you can say goodbye to 270 mp and 40 mu. I would say a decrease of 25-50 mp would be perfect to balance things out. I myself am able to win a game with only 2-3 hmgs as axis, as allies if I don't field all 4 it means I'm losing.

Second I think wehrmacht mortar could cost more. Seriously, you can use it as a killing machine and getting vet 3 its a piece of cake. It costs only 20 munitions more than allied one but it is able (because I did it) to kill 4-5 riflemen in one shot while the allied mortar can barely damage a grenadier squad even if it hits them. Now that it has auto-retreat when coming down to one man, it's the easiest unit in the game, with insane range and insane damage.

It would be cool if you can at least decrease the hmg price to make the match more balanced for everyone.

Meh I am a wehrmacht player what does it means? It means the u.s. side can field one more engineers squad or at most one more vanilla unupgraded rifle squad...

[Sixpack]

*I shouldn´t be doing this*

Err I kinda feel the allied hmg is overpriced in terms of manpower, as it is now it costs the same as an axis hmg 270 mp and 40 mu, however, if you want to use it effectively you have to pay an extra 20 mu to buy ap rounds which define better its role and strengths.

So you are saying the hmg is only a cheap at unit to kill HTs and other light vehicles (a lot of PE units by that. And it can even do dmg without the ap rounds quite ok.

I would suggest -while keeping the munition price the same- a decrease in manpower price so that you can get 100-200 mp from your 4 hmgs to field an additional rifleman, because as it is now with volksgrenadiers costing 185 mp (I don't know how can you say they are worse than rifles, because they are =) your manpower as allies is bleeding. When someone rushes blob you and you are axis, even if you are a bit late to set up the hmg it suppresses and you get the win rather easily, as allies instead, if you fail to set up when the blob start or even earlier, you can say goodbye to 270 mp and 40 mu.

Sounds like you try to use mgs in a way where they want to be killed. I think there are more than enough rifles and tommys running around now with the changes (you can properly blob once as allies whereas if you try it as axis with grens and fail you are very short on inf). And how I see it the 30. Cal has a good precision, I pretty much always loose a man before I can pull them out wheras I have seen allys getting out of mg 42s without losses quite often. A Volks unit is ok but more of an expensive recrew then a real frontline infantry unit.

I would say a decrease of 30-40 mp would be perfect to balance things out. I myself am able to win a game with only 2-3 hmgs as axis, as allies if I don't field all 4 it means I'm losing.

I now it is kind of stupid to say this but you are not the only one playing this game and people have different playstyles and strategies. aka: just because you can doesn´t mean others can too.

Second I think wehrmacht mortar could cost more. Seriously, you can use it as a killing machine and getting vet 3 its a piece of cake. It costs only 20 munitions more than allied one but it is able (because I did it) to kill 4-5 riflemen in one shot while the allied mortar can barely damage a grenadier squad even if it hits them. Now that it has auto-retreat when coming down to one man, it's the easiest unit in the game, with insane range and insane damage.

It would be cool if you can at least decrease the hmg price to make the match more balanced for everyone.

Meh I am a wehrmacht player what does it means? It means the u.s. side can field one more engineers squad or at most one more vanilla unupgraded rifle squad...

Can´t comment to the mortar but the less spam the more fun this game seems to be with something new to see and find out again and again.

[BigDick]

Meh I am a wehrmacht player....

meh i only see you as brit or us

i've with every faction more "in reserve" then i can field but ressources don't allow that....

but that is intended that there are multiple companies

you have to choose what fits better to your playstyle

i love hmgs and i've 4 on us and 4 on wehr side
as brit i'm commando to get support stuff

that is my playstyle if your playstyle is more mobile infantry like rangers and riflemen then use maybe 2 hmgs

and i decide in all of my companies e.g. between mortar or sniper....
a combination of both would be great e.g. to spot with sniper for mortar but then i've to rely to much onto inf of my teammates because of pop and ressource costs

[Bubz]

I have said nothing you actually claim I have been sayng... I used examples of strenghts and weaknesses. Like the charging blob, while a mg42 is able to counter it (superior suppression and range), a .30 is most likely the losing part. Then, mg42 kills more men than .30 leaving them with less fire power. In one burst it suppresses and kills at least 1-2 riflemen, while a .30 from long range can barely scratch grenadiers (due to shitty suppression they can get away). And if you have ever played vCoh where mg suppression is very common you should realise rifles nearly always take casualties/insta suppression, so I don't think (unless it's maximum range and you immediatly push the unit back) what you said is right.
If you say volks are exepensive recrew you really fail at using wehrmacht. They are the basic infantry avaible at you in the beginning of a match, and you can use them effectively vs rifles as well. They do even have upgrades (panzerfauts is a nice surprise and mp40).
The mortar have always been this insane, it's definitely not "something new"
Nobody talked about spam a part from you...
You should really stop to play wehrmacht only and try couple of games as allies to realise what I mean. I don't think players who only play one faction (be it U.S/Brits or Wehrmacht/PE) can talk about balance.

BigDick I have only played once at brits, 8 at U.S and 3-4 as Wehrmacht, 2 as PE out of my 14-15. games... and we never played together.
I am not even talking about avaibility or such, I find odd that a superior, longer range, better suppression unit is priced like its counter part less effective unit.

[perfil02]

the MG42 and Cal30 are balanced, the Cal30 fires faster, can kill light vehicles really fast, and has almost the same supression, also is quite more accurate.

[Smithy17]

we've been through that several times before.
They both do about the same damage.

[Bubz]

.30 doesn't fire faster, has longer burst duration, and only with ap rounds can kill light vehicles that fast...

[gamesguy1]

the MG42 and Cal30 are balanced, the Cal30 fires faster, can kill light vehicles really fast, and has almost the same supression, also is quite more accurate.

Nope.   The two MGs have about the same suppression over time, but the MG42 has far superior burst suppression and hence its much better for suppressing infantry.

Simple tests will show that the MG42 will suppress rifles with one 1-2 second burst at long range, where as the 30cal takes 4-5 seconds to suppress a squad of volks at long range.

30 cal is only more accurate against weapon teams(ie house to house MG fight), both MGs do about the same dps, the 30 cal does a tiny tiny amount more(1 dps, thats like half a volksgrenadier dude at long range).

[MannfredvonRitter]

I have noticed the 30cal seems to kill faster, whilst the Mg42 seems to supress faster. As PE the 30cal more than rapes my infantry so I don't know what to say.

[MistenTHA]

30 cal doesn't kill all that much faster. But the suppression on the MG42 is a real advantage. Typically charging into any MG at point blank range is gonna hurt, but as the MG42 can suppress allied infantry very fast within 1-2 bursts rather than 2-3, it keeps them in the killing zone longer rather than skirt the fire cone and then come back and haunt down the MG. Plus suppressed troops have lower damage output.

AP rounds on the 30 cal is nice, but once you get used to not sitting in the front arc it's fine. And with mortars and mortar HTs available, there is no need to risk light vehicles in a direct charge, which also exposes them to ATGs.

[Bubz]

I would really like a dev to consider this balancement. Anyway, yes Manfred you are right, what you say it's logical, even if .30 is worse than the mg42 it keeps its role of hmg. If PE had mg42 (they would have with reinforcements) I am sure my rifles would be raped too. I don't think a 25-50 mp price decrease is too much to ask considering the superiority of the mg42 range and suppression. And by the way I am talking about vanilla hmgs, if you buy AP rounds on .30 you're fairly going to pay more. As gamersguy1 said mg42 is overall a better mg than the .30 cal, I am not asking for a nerf or such, just a price decrease would be fine to even out the imbalances.
Another point. If you enter the effective range of an mg42 with rifles(sight range 35) you're most likely getting pinned due to the hmg range (45) because you have 10 meters of range to walk away, while as axis if you charge a .30 with volks(sight range 35) due to slower suppression and lower sight (40) you have only 5 meters to walk away which generally means you can save your squad with few casualties.

[MannfredvonRitter]

I would really like a dev to consider this balancement. Anyway, yes Manfred you are right, what you say it's logical, even if .30 is worse than the mg42 it keeps its role of hmg. If PE had mg42 (they would have with reinforcements) I am sure my rifles would be raped too. I don't think a 25-50 mp price decrease is too much to ask considering the superiority of the mg42 range and suppression. And by the way I am talking about vanilla hmgs, if you buy AP rounds on .30 you're fairly going to pay more. As gamersguy1 said mg42 is overall a better mg than the .30 cal, I am not asking for a nerf or such, just a price decrease would be fine to even out the imbalances.
Another point. If you enter the effective range of a mg42 with rifles(sight range 35) you're most likely getting pinned due to the hmg range (45) because you have 10 meters of range to walk away, while as axis if you charge a .30 with volks(sight range 35) due to slower suppression and lower sight (40) you have only 5 meters to walk away which generally means you can save your squad with few casualties.

I think a price decrease on allied mortar and hmg is quite fair. They are inferior to the axis equivalents (the low health is partly to blame for riflemen dying quickly, my Panzer Grens die really fast to allied mortars also).

[CafeMilani]

I have noticed the 30cal seems to kill faster, whilst the Mg42 seems to supress faster. As PE the 30cal more than rapes my infantry so I don't know what to say.

yh thats it..maybe its more accurate..

1 MG42 vs 1 allied HMG, both in houses, who wins? the allied hmg

[Sach]

thats due to its penetration

[gamesguy1]

I have noticed the 30cal seems to kill faster, whilst the Mg42 seems to supress faster. As PE the 30cal more than rapes my infantry so I don't know what to say.

yh thats it..maybe its more accurate..

1 MG42 vs 1 allied HMG, both in houses, who wins? the allied hmg

Thats the only time the allied HMG wins.   HMGs have something called incremental accuracy modifier, meaning the more men it shoots at, the more accurate it is.

Guess which side has bigger squads?   The MG42 kills riflemen just as fast as the 30 cal kills volksgrenadiers/grenadiers.  The only time the 30 cal has a dps advantage is in retarded house to house MG fights.

[Tymathee]

glad to see some good stats here. learned some stuff i didn't know. I think 25-50 is too high though. I'd say 20 is the best. If you max out ur hmg's, that's 80 and that can make a difference, it may not seem so but it does. Ditto allied mortar, it fires more but has lower range than axis mortar.

maybe add in commando hmg as well, because it is about the same as the allied hmg. (280/40)

but allied mortar (460 40) vs axis mortar (495 70) i dont think that's a bad gap, mortar commando though....(495 60) on par with axis mortar? nah...


oh, btw, inf hmg in vcoh 240 wehr hmg 260

[Bubz]

Mortar is another issue, I am basically asking to decrease the hmg cost because it's weaker so that will save you about 100 mp from 4 hmgs. Partially because of cheap volks and partially because of mg42 being superior unless you buy ap rounds, but it's ok because you pay more munitions.

[MannfredvonRitter]

glad to see some good stats here. learned some stuff i didn't know. I think 25-50 is too high though. I'd say 20 is the best. If you max out ur hmg's, that's 80 and that can make a difference, it may not seem so but it does. Ditto allied mortar, it fires more but has lower range than axis mortar.

maybe add in commando hmg as well, because it is about the same as the allied hmg. (280/40)

but allied mortar (460 40) vs axis mortar (495 70) i dont think that's a bad gap, mortar commando though....(495 60) on par with axis mortar? nah...


oh, btw, inf hmg in vcoh 240 wehr hmg 260

Commando MG's have more health I thought? Also it allows you something you can't normally have, so should be more expensive to represent that.

[Skaevola]

Actually commando MG is quite hard to flank because the two other guys are literally commandos, complete with Stens and everything.

[Mukip]

All doctrines allow you something you can't normally have (Commandos get mobile mortar, Artillery get longer ranged mortar and Engineers get AVREs) so units should be priced at what they're worth.  MG is a little different from the mortar in that it generally often ends up in a house where it's smoke grendes are not useful and it normally dies to tank fire/mortar rounds so them having stens doesn't help them there.  The Commando mortar is relatively good compared to the US one and get range increase with vet that help it out.