Stuh42 Requires Balancing - Projectile Speed

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[31stPzGren]

The Stuh42 projectile fires too fast. Previously at its cost and fuel, the stuh42 is a reasonable weapon which can easily rack up to 40 kills in a game, disabling anti tank infantry, anti tank guns and weapon support teams when the enemy is caught unsurprised.

It is a unit which is meant to be microed and meant to use ATTACK GROUND unlike "attack-move" or "right-click".

At its current state, it will easily kill several times than its Manpower + Fuel cost of units.

There was no need to increase the projectile speed as it is already a very potent weapon.

Discuss your opinions and vote.

[MannfredvonRitter]

I agree. I see them nonstop currently.

[Two]

Yes they are insane atm, and due to their inaccuracy they will hit you as you try to dodge 

[LordMalgoroth]

Whilst trolling GR and the balance forums here I have see many absurd comments.

This wins.

Stuh TOO good?

It's cumbersome, clumsy, slow, and if you're stupid enough to leave your infantry within range of this big, slow, clumsy, cumbersome vehicle then you deserve to lose your units.

Seriously? The projectile moves to fast?
Seriously

[EliteGrens]

In vCoH the StuH might be bad, but seriously, this thing RAPES in EiR.

[LordMalgoroth]

It's still big and clumsy and slow as shit. If it gets within range of an AT gun or any tank then they'll have to pull it back and spend 20 minutes fixing the damn thing. That's IF it makes it to safety. AT rounds fuck the Stuhs day up. And don't dare give me that bullshit "but it wins one on one with an AT gun!" Even if it DOES somehow win, its health has suffered immensely and a competent player will have more than just ONE AT gun as their anti armor.

People need to quit complaining about all the "OP" shit they don't feel like dealing with, man up, and figure out a counter. Use the 'strategy' that's such a part of 'strategy' games. Half the people I see making balance complaints/suggestions don't want balance, they just want an easier time.

When I charge my P4 at a garrisoned MG and a 57 AT shot comes along and gibs 25% of the things health and another shot takes it to 50%, you won't see me storming onto the forums filled with wrath ready to vent my indignation on unsuspecting post browsers. I'll complain to myself, breath, and not do something stupid like that next game. 

[Tymathee]

i never have a problem with them. Just bring on a tank and an at-gun and you'll rape it. also, if it shoots at ur infantry, move the exact opposite way u were moving when it fired and it'll miss. I rape stuh's personally.

[avaspin]

The stuh only kicks ass when you're in a city map like St Lo because it fires like a PIAT or rifle grenade would.  Id say it's pretty balanced already, maybe fire rate could be slowed down a little.

[GenSturm]

I laugh, seariously. You can't counter this thing?

LordMalgoroth pointed it out, bring ATgun rather then blob your infantry to get killed in 1 shot.

You are also lucky enough that you cas easily hear and spot Stuh42, and that the projectile even gives you chance to dodge it.

I've seen brits that decided to stand and fight vs Stuh42 with only lefties and brens. 5-10 min later he got left w/o any infantry to call in.

Simply folks, develop some counter. How about Tank? With something to block Stuh42? Or ATgun with AP shells and other vehicle to block stuh42 from escape or rush in?

The stuh only kicks ass when you're in a city map like St Lo because it fires like a PIAT or rifle grenade would.  Id say it's pretty balanced already, maybe fire rate could be slowed down a little.

Yeah, but Stuh projectile won't got through building just like piat/nades do. It will hit the building.

[sgMisten]

Yeah, but Stuh projectile won't got through building just like piat/nades do. It will hit the building.

The StuH demolishes the building in 3-4 hits, after which you can fire over the wreckage of the building with no problems. On most maps there is a central area where this is a key advantage, as the building wreckage shields you from direct fire AT while allowing you to pulverise enemy advances.

[CafeMilani]

everytime i see an ATGun shooting at it, it dies :/  it has a very weak armour, even with skirts and it doesnt his everytime..

[Guderian]

Yeah, but Stuh projectile won't got through building just like piat/nades do. It will hit the building.

The StuH demolishes the building in 3-4 hits, after which you can fire over the wreckage of the building with no problems. On most maps there is a central area where this is a key advantage, as the building wreckage shields you from direct fire AT while allowing you to pulverise enemy advances.

i thought it was supposed to be good at ''urban assaults''

 

[Bubz]

It's not a urban assault it's a mobile artillery piece. How can you say it should be used in urban if it has no turret? Anyway there are two things which can kill half a rifle/airborne squad ina  single shot, the wtfpwning german mortar, and the StuH42, however I would say you can keep the 15 degree rotation with this tank because it's insane righ now. Add skirts cheap cost and you have to use at gun to kill it, and even then he can kill the at gun frontally with lucky shots. However, you have to be good at microing it.

[31stPzGren]

It's cumbersome, clumsy, slow, and if you're stupid enough to leave your infantry within range of this big, slow, clumsy, cumbersome vehicle then you deserve to lose your units.

Seriously? The projectile moves to fast?
Seriously

You're a nub, thats why. I played extensively on axis in EiR before they tweaked the projectile rates and I can tell you, my assault force with storms combination and stuh takes the city/defenders in a record time of 1:30 from deployment on an unstacked match, me and some random guy against 2 experienced players. That is without the projectile speed increase. With the speed increase it doesn't take skill to use at all.

It's still big and clumsy and slow as shit. If it gets within range of an AT gun or any tank then they'll have to pull it back and spend 20 minutes fixing the damn thing. That's IF it makes it to safety. AT rounds fuck the Stuhs day up. And don't dare give me that bullshit "but it wins one on one with an AT gun!" Even if it DOES somehow win, its health has suffered immensely and a competent player will have more than just ONE AT gun as their anti armor.

No. I kill anti tank guns without even taking a single shot from the ATG. Flanking/scouting ahead with storms works very well in searching for AT positions. The stuh is not clumsy, just difficult to micro. If you want clumsy, try microing a ketten getting bitch slapped by a jeep.

Now, it won't just win one on one with an AT gun. It will fuck the AT gun over and any anti tank infantry you bring. AB w/ RRs and Rangers are now completely UNVIABLE counters to a stuh.

People need to quit complaining about all the "OP" shit they don't feel like dealing with, man up, and figure out a counter. Use the 'strategy' that's such a part of 'strategy' games. Half the people I see making balance complaints/suggestions don't want balance, they just want an easier time.

When I charge my P4 at a garrisoned MG and a 57 AT shot comes along and gibs 25% of the things health and another shot takes it to 50%, you won't see me storming onto the forums filled with wrath ready to vent my indignation on unsuspecting post browsers. I'll complain to myself, breath, and not do something stupid like that next game. 

The stuh can be countered. I'm just saying thrown in the hands of a pro, it is far too cost efficient.

I laugh, seariously. You can't counter this thing?

In the hands of a good player, it will deal more damage than its worth.

LordMalgoroth pointed it out, bring ATgun rather then blob your infantry to get killed in 1 shot.

You are also lucky enough that you cas easily hear and spot Stuh42, and that the projectile even gives you chance to dodge it.

I assume we fight CREDIBLE opponents who know to support the stuh with infantry and scout ahead which means you aren't going to take it down without a fight. Previously without the faster projectile speed, it is still possible to fight it off with infantry + ATG combination. With the increased speed, it can just kite and run easily. The only option to defeat it is to bring a tank.

Simply folks, develop some counter. How about Tank? With something to block Stuh42? Or ATgun with AP shells and other vehicle to block stuh42 from escape or rush in?

Yes, all that is possible. What I'm arguing about is COST EFFECTIVENESS. The stuh can slaughter tons used properly. Just blitz in, drop a round, retreat out. Rinse and repeat.

You guys obviously never used stuh much or faced competent players who used them.

At this price, it is EVEN BETTER to take the stuh than the ostwind or the stug. Seriously. Leave the anti infantry to the stuh and the anti tank to the pak + schrecks.

[Dragon2008]

If u make the projectile any slower it will turn into matrix and would kinda make the Stuh42 only be able to attack building and static units. If you ask me its fine. Just don't be an idiot and try n inf blob the Stuh42 (STUPID).

[31stPzGren]

I'm not asking you to make it "slower", just REVERT back to the original values. It was perfectly balanced at that price, why go and break it?

Its a platform, just like any other that takes skill to use. Even the most cost effective weapons in the hands of a nub is worthless. However, in this case, there is a fine line between the need for micro vs rewarding sloppy gameplay and increasing the projectile speed has clearly crossed the line.

[Unkn0wn]

If this is how its going to be patched to vCOH, EIR will likely follow unless it would severely break EIR gameplay.
That being said, we can easily compensate for the StuH becoming better by making it more expensive.

[31stPzGren]

That being said, we can easily compensate for the StuH becoming better by making it more expensive.

That would be good. Stuh is more of an anti-infantry, so perhaps you could increase the manpower and leave the fuel alone. If vCoH is indeed patching it (which we never know when their patch is going to come out...) then by all means, I guess you should stick to it.

If not, its really better to keep to the old values. As it is, its already very effective against infantry based anti tank options.

[Khorney]

i don't know the exact ins and outs of the damage tables and such, but at the moment the stuh seems like a rapid firing, autofiring AVRE. is this far from the truth?

[Bubz]

They put the 30 deegre thing instead of 15 deegree because in vcoh both stuh and stug (slightly better) suck bad.