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[CafeMilani]

in my opinion the bren button is even more effective than treadbraker when its treadbraking because when tanks are pinned by a bren they cant even shoot-> defend themselves

immobalized tanks (by normal treadbraking treadbrakers) CAN still shoot around, making some damage

so: treadbrakers really should be treadbraking
or: bren button needs to be nerfed

[Smokaz]

Most axis AT kill a tank so fast when it cant keep distance or a croc can be kept out of range from, so it doesnt matter. You dont even need rear shots on most allied tanks, unlike zooks and on top of the majority of axis tanks having skirts to reduce infantry at. As much as it sucks to be immobilzed or engine damaged with a axis tanks, the allied tanks are far more vulnerable to being slowed down. A firefly is dead if it gets a engine damage, and so are any of the flame tanks. A p4 or a hetzer might be able to back out of there.

[CafeMilani]

ATGuns kill tanks even faster.

[Scyntos]

I think 20s is a little long for the effectiveness of Button to work, 15s sounds more reasonable to me.

[perfil02]

i think that bren button should be nerfed. Atleast when off maps are avalible, because if not, it will mean buttoned tank, destroyed tank.

[CafeMilani]

the counterpart to the bren button are treadbrakers

[Smokaz]

Button duration might be too long when people are using more than one button squad. I wish there was a way to make button not work immediatly after the tank is released from first button, etc. Its really nasty when people are stacking several buttons on the same tank with a armor reinforcement pack giving brits 57mms.

[Baine]

It's the same thing that Allies whined about concerning the Treadbreaker.
When there's a Heavy Tank or whatever (preferably vetted) they will keep him buttoned and finish him off, and the Axis player can't do anything, the tank is lost in most cases.

So get us the treadbreaker back in any form. Give it 10 minutes cooldown or whatever.

[Akranadas]

Here's the thing about Button. Kill the Bren Squad.

[CafeMilani]

kill the AT HT-.- 2 ATGun shots-> dead

[Akranadas]

Okay, try to kill a AT halftrack BEFORE/DURING the treadbreaker.

[CafeMilani]

treadbraker is the COUNTERPART to the bren button and u buffed it, that BS

and as i said, pinned tank cant even shoot! immobalized can

[Baine]

Here's the thing about Button. Kill the Bren Squad.

What's effective against several Bren squads/riflenades/piats (they won't come alone) when they just buttoned your tank?

[Akranadas]

MP44

[CafeMilani]

are u kidding me?! they get raped by riflenades and brens
jeez tommies RULE

[Baine]

MP44

Good luck getting close enough.

[Smokaz]

If the tiger werent so overshadowed by the current ACE, people would still be going blitz alot. I believe assault nades are quite cheap now, and if more people used assault grenades the british blobs would cease to exist. Literally, as they blow up in a rain of grenades.

Currently a lot of british players are within their rights to blob, as nobody employs proper anti british blob tactics. Assault nades, stukas and to a lesser degree the nebel can all put the hurt on the blob.

Its kinda sad how lack of axis invention (myself included) prevents them from putting the hurt on the british blob. Right now the blobbers arent even using cover. I remember back in the days when I played 2v2 in retail with extremely good brits which had awesome tommy blob micro. If you use cover with tommies and have captain + LT around they should become more like light vehicles than infantry.

Its entirely doable to overcome the british blob, even with PE. Just now recently I had a game against Pak88. I sent in a kettenkrad to confirm that he was gonna blob tommies. Before this game I had given the issue of how to overcome a tommy blob with normal units some thought.

My two first platoons looked like this:

First platoon
1x ketten

Second platoon (constructed from 2 different platoons)
2 x mp44 squads in a Inf HT
1 x PIV support tank

I raced the ketten towards his spawn making sure I spotted a full 25 pop of tommies, for no nasty surprises. My plan was then to race in the inf halftrack towards the button tommies, to make him spend a button. Once it was buttoned, I unloaded the mp44s which then forced him to cancel button or get wiped completely without any casualties from me. Now that he had used up his button, the PIV rolled in behind this force in quick pursuit and cleaned up the entire mess. Result: Dead infantry halftrack and some mp44s, half damaged PIV (he had piats) and a completely dead 25 pop of tommies. Who can say I didnt come out on top in terms of units, as well as securing that vital hold on the middle of the map. I still lost the game in question if anyone is wondering, but the first fight was clearly mine and im just making an example about how to deal with the british blob.

The british blob requires more thinking to counter than the american blob because of heroic charge and riflenades raping the axis MG42, but its still entirely doable. An countering the british blob is a large part of the problem with the button squads. Tommies are tough but not godlike, and a 25 pop of upgraded tommies and sappers is guaranteed to represent a big slice of his total munitions each time you beat it.
That said, I think a tommy bren squad in green cover with a LT can easily shred 3 squads of unugpraded pgs.

[sgMisten]

I've been able to handle button by fighting tommies with brens as if they were holding shreks i.e. at long range. If they try to button I'll back off the Pz4 or Ace (axis tanks i use atm) until button wears off. If another squad tries to rush up I have support handy, i.e. MG42, mortar, pak. So it's not a big issue if you're using your tanks in a combined arms force. It _will_ rape your tank if you send it rambo-style all over the map, or get lazy with pushing your support units up to support the tank.

Treadbreaker engine damage doesn't slow an allied tank down as much as button, but it's a 1 click use ability that's almost guaranteed to go off and lasts until the damage is repaired. If you have AT with the AT-HT (and no reason you shouldn't, same with bren tommies, they can't kill a tank without supporting AT), 1-2 hits from a PAK or shreks will make it take a long time to repair that engine damage, even if you don't kill the tank.

[Akranadas]

You know what I hate; "Imaginational Theory Crafting" . This happens when someone posts a logical Counter to your problem, then the person 'counter' counter posts yours with a counter to your counter which wasn't in the first area of discussion.

This in tern creates a cycle of nothing by more and more theroy crafting around a problem. Where posters come up with even more and more complex 'counter' counters to more logical answers.

[MannfredvonRitter]

There are no hard and fast or easy counters to buttoning and buttoning, like stickies is not infinitely avoidable. I would like to see any Panzer Elite infantry counter a British blob, really I would. Once a leutenant is in the pack with riflenades and brens countering it without losing most of the map is quite difficult.

In fact, the bren is far worse than the sticky. The sticky was a specialised piece of equipment, with a leutenant and a captain the bren actually does quite good damage against infantry, with the added bonus that it can stop any tank which happens to be attacking, of which the tank in question is guaranteed death. I hardly see how bren spam is any less bullshit than ATHT spam.

You know what else, although engine damage is apparently more crippling on allied tanks, axis tanks cost more. Button my Jagpanther and kill it and it's pretty much GG and buttoning isn't as hard as some claim. You successfully button a tiger for whatever reason (you can button with a bren carrier whilst rushing up infantry to finish the job, the brief pause is more than enough to do so and the miss chance for a tank against the bren carrier seems to be quite high). All the british player needs is a 57mm with his blob for a mere 4 pop, and any tanks it encounters are history, maybe throw in the magical bren carrier for good measure to ensure the tank is buttoned and raped.

I do it nonstop with the british and every british player I've seen so far has constantly buttoned virtually every tank they face.

The bren costs 90munitions, comes with the added advantage of higher AI power and even more advantage in that it gets to disable tanks temporarily.

Meanwhile tread breaker costs 95, on a platform that's useless otherwise and costs 275 and 50fu on top of that for this single ability (maybe you buy focused firing for an additional cost slightly increasing its effectiveness in skirmishes).

Try killing an ATHT before it fires? Put an ATG next to your tank and watch just how fast it does, it really is quite insane. It will rarely manage to get a shot off.