How should we nerf the calli?

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[gamesguy1]

calliope rockets do 30 damage.

[VariantThirteen]

I disagree that the Cally is less useful than a Sherman for the overall purpose of winning the game. With a cally on the field, the Axis players HAVE to attack. If they fail to do so, their units will simply be outattritioned by the Cally vomiting on them now and again. It is not simply the killing power of it, but the inexorable nature of it that makes it OP.

[Scyntos]

calliope rockets do 30 damage.

There's just no way it can be 30 per rocket unless it's getting a 200%+ modifier against infantry. - in that case it needs to be changed.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

According to COH-Stats, Calliope rockets do 50-30, decreasing to 30-18 at long AOE. No modifier.  Basically it needs multiple hits to kill any infantry that's at full health.  Though with so many rockets being fired, it's more than possible to get a kill critical for infantry at yellow HP (one hit).

[Malevolence]

I know grens survive a hit to the dome from a callie rocket, so it's under 80 at any rate.

[stumpster]

calliope rockets do 30 damage.

There's just no way it can be 30 per rocket unless it's getting a 200%+ modifier against infantry. - in that case it needs to be changed.

The rocket damage is 30-50, however the 'short' range AoE does 1.5x damage.  This means that in a direct rocket hit, damage can vary between 45 and 75.  Technically, this is still less than some infantry unit HP, but well within the red HP critical on a 'good hit'.  This can cause some Grenadiers surviving a direct hit, but others exploding.  This also explains how previous vet levels that gave Grenadiers health bonuses with veterancy made them eat two or even three rocket hits before dying.

[gamesguy1]

According to COH-Stats, Calliope rockets do 50-30, decreasing to 30-18 at long AOE. No modifier.  Basically it needs multiple hits to kill any infantry that's at full health.  Though with so many rockets being fired, it's more than possible to get a kill critical for infantry at yellow HP (one hit).

Wow my brain is shortfusing today.  Apparently I can't read coh stats.

Oh well, my bad.

[NightRain]

Umm...

Why not increase Calliopes price?

I know Calliope is massive killer and all but why not increase its price to match up with Axis Super tanks? We are all aware that calliope is not a super tank but you can consider it as a super tank since it is more survivable and deals more damage. If we increase its pop normally to match up around 12 which is a basic tank requirement but its price up to close to match a King Tiger or close to Tiger Ace?

It is just me, this would make allies players to decide (few more Shermans or M10s or Calliope and very few other tanks)
This is what Axis players decide when they look at the big price of a big metal box called Tiger Ace or King Tiger or basic Tiger.

If Calliope costs close to a Axis super tank then you may ignore me I've always seen CAlliope- but on the barrels wrong side

This would respect EiR's habit to stay loyal to VCoH Stats

[Sach]

Calli need a nerf, i couldnt agree more. At least its speed and pop..

Yes, its schultz, caught between accounts.

insta ban, you know the rules.

I'm I missing something or has the calli not changed in over a year and is suddenly now overpowered?

[VariantThirteen]

As far as I'm aware, there was always a consensus about it being overpowered.

[Mysthalin]

As far as I remember, there has always been a concencus calliopes are useless without DRR, back in vEiR... Most wehr units can shrug off a cali barage - units like paks could even get out of the barrage area alive.

Think it's mostly the low HP of PE units that's making such a fuss about the cali right now - it always insta-gibs a guy with each of it's rockets on PG squads, and it doesn't take too many to kill the other units the PE have...

Give tp_Infantry_Soldier armor less succeptibility to calliope shots or smth, could help a lot, seeing as the nature of the PE means they have to blob quite a lot when in a direct engagement with enemy troops. Make PE halftracks and cars take less damage from the calliope too - not a huge nerf to the calli, but would help the side that suffers most from the cali right now - the PE.

That and 12 popcap would make sure cali isn't OP, but not useless either.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

ah poo

i explicitly checked for the 1.5 damage bit, but i looked at the AOE accuracy by accident 

[BigDick]

The Cali A nerf? 

A unit thats eats pop cap for 4 mins while it does nothing?  So if there is one on the field early game, thats 30% of the mans army in pop cap in 1 unit that can;t do a damn thing? 

Right now, without duel rocket racks, the cali is a glorified motar. 

It gets blocked by hedgs, and buildings, alongwith the back side of hills..... 

How abpout this, Don;t blob, cali countered.

All a calli does is provide blob control, but most of the time it provides not much mroe then a counter to the axis motar.

like someone said before..it is not completely OP because the kill it make
it is op because it forces the opponents to attack suiciding units or to die a slow death

it would not make a sense to raise its pop slightly or to make it more expensive...

you would reach just the border between "not cost effective" and "OP"

the main problem of the calliope are the missing counters...

that is always a problem for distance units like artillery
they need to have some "cost effective" counters

that is why artillery pieces need weakness and have to be balanced with its weakness and not using its cost only

calliope is fast has heavy armor and dont need to be at the frontline to do its damage....that is what it makes difficult to counter

with hummel armor and hummel speed/acceleration it would be still do the same damage against blobbing

[SyKoFanTlvl2]

I agree with BDick in that the problem that is the calliope, is its Survivability.

The main reason for that, is the sherman chassis which makes it really really really hard to kill in one go, and at the same time gives it a very nice speed to get out of dodge - should the opponent try and make a (often futile) attempt at throwing away a couple of tanks and shreck squads etc. at it.

At the same time, the problem is, that the ONLY unit the axis side has that can be dropped behind enemy lines, is FJ, and ffs, all they can get are overpriced Fausts, and only one per. squad, which means u have to drop like 4 of em, on the callie, and all have to hit the rear armor... right.... thats cost effective... :/ and then there is the Stormtroopers that people allways mention, which in truth is a joke, cause of the MASSIVE shreck cost on them (not mentioning the recent shreck nerf - wtfs up with that?) and the fact that they are easily spottet before getting to the target -PLUS- they are FAR FAR FAR from a safe kill on the callie, once again because of the redicilous survivability of the damn thing, and will end up dead meat after the first go, if the allied player isnt mentally retarded.

THEN, on top of that, the Callie has a LOW pop-cost, and EPIC vet-advantages - vet which is EASILY aquired, once again - youve guessed it - due to it BEING FUCKING INVINCIBLE.

And guys, plz stop arguing FOR the callie by saying "allies need something OP to play up with the -TOTALLY WTF OP WERMACHT!!!-" which is just pathetic - especially whilst WM is getting WTF-nerfed atm.

SO, in conclusion, stop fan-boying around, and start doing something about this, its just a bad joke - AND, yes, i agree, until doctrines are introduced the Armor-doctrine is very weak without callies, compared to the other doctrines, but that just doesnt excuse the callie being a ridicilous I-WIN button.

[SaintPauli]

EiR is based around not doing stat changes so we should focus on price/pop. The current price is already a massive investment but the pop is ridicules low. IMHO the pop should be raised to a minimum of 12 preferably 14.   

[Mysthalin]

Shrek price goes up by an average 15 munitions and wehr is suddenly "WTFNERFED"... I'm wondering what's more fanboy'ish - complaining about the calliope getting a 25 percent increase in pop cap cost(with which the allies seem to have no trouble at all) or seeing a 9-18 percent increase in shrek price as a castration to the wehr forces...

you would reach just the border between "not cost effective" and "OP"

I think that's pretty much the sentence I'd use to describe something that is balanced. By your post, though, it seems you want the cali to be not cost effective, not the inbetween.

Killing a caliope is hard, but hey - so is killing a Tiger Ace, it requires teamwork and determination. I've seen the dual shrek clowncar IHT destroy most allied tanks with extreme efficiency, maybe they would work vs callies as well? If you're going to argue "there's too much support weapons guarding it" - hey, a popcap increase to it would mean one of them is now gone, effectively a gap in their defence for you to exploit. Also, don't forget that each of the units your enemy uses to guard his cali is one less unit at the front lines. If he's doing both - protecting the cali and the front line with his units, then you're getting outplayed, and that's all I can say.

[Smokaz]

Some of the bullshit I read here makes me laugh. Mysthalin, you cannot possible mean that killing tiger ace and killing a calliope is the same thing. Think about it one more time. The tiger ace is effectively neutralized by one at gun keeping its turret towards it or at least scared off and tricked into not doing much damage. The calliope is ONLY neutralized by being destroyed or chased off the field. And there is no way to threaten a calliope into not doing its job, as it vastly outranges any unit that threatens it face to face.

Survivability is the main issue here, it needs to go down when you actually send shit against it and you catch it in the open. Speed/health is one of the most evident ways to solve this.

Please dont regurgitate the crap about not changing stats from vcoh as it has already happened many times. The Shrek was until recently more accurate at long range than it was in vcoh.

And honestly, if anyone MUST have a calliope to counter a axis mortar.. go you. You are one of those crappy noob players who run out of forces halfway into the game because you  fire up directly against an mg to kill it instead of doing a regular flank. Opinion of such players should be counted out.

I also see the damage discussion coming up - BUT THIS IS NOT THE POINT AND NEVER WAS - The point was that EVEN WHEN YOU CORNER IT, it will refuse to die because of armor/hp/speed.

[Mysthalin]

If you manage to scare away a Tiger Ace with just one (1) 57 mm pointing at it, you got one hell of a noob as your enemy. The TA has more speed and more health than the Calliope, while doing simmilar damage(even though in a direct manner, unlike the calliope).
I've given you a credible counter to it, that doesn't require you to be uber lucky, have an uber shitty enemy(unlike your proposal of beating a TA with 1 AT gun), or anything else.

[Smokaz]

Show us some replays of you taking out a calli inside its support blob with PE infantry halftracks loaded up with PE shreks - cost effectively. And one 57 with ap rounds will keep the TA away if you have a spotter for the 57.  I understand your need to take your own individual stance on everything but defending the current calli is just bullshit you and you should rise above it.

[Baine]

Show us some replays of you taking out a calli inside its support blob with PE infantry halftracks loaded up with PE shreks - cost effectively.

25 pop cap full of HT's with shrecks you noob! They can't kill them all can they?