We Need Less Stacking!

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[#Freek]

When stats/units are on the line, none of us likes to play with 'noobs' who may cause us to loose our precious vet. 
Time and again, I've come to a game w/ Allied noobs, but straight axis champs.. I've lost a number of such games to the point that I *refuse* to play anymore games with those whom I think are new unless there are a similar number of 'new' axis players. 

But then people started smurfing, and games that looked even turned into stomps. 

The factors contributing to this are the few axis 'noobs', smurfing, no form of auto match.

Hell, if this keeps up, I'll either go Axis myself or just quit playing altogether.

We just need less stacking.  It causes us to be mean to noobs, telling them to go 'find another game'; I've done it, you've done it.  It may not be a dev fixable thing, but the community can certainly fix it.

[If devs were to try something, they might make it so that 1 account can be both axis/allied and swap as needed]

[Scyn]

Its really only a select group of people that refuse to not stack. The rest of the community is pretty well off. Part of the problem is that most people just want to play so they'll go and get their ass handed to them regardless of how fair it is and that only enables stackers to keep doing it. If stackers can't find games.. they smurf. And it's pretty easy usually to tell who a smurf is.

[Malevolence]

I play both sides and try to keep to highly ranked games and players, myself. I know it's no fun to get your ass handed to you.

[NightRain]

Aye

It is very fun to win a fight and awful to lose and blame team mate who failed to keep a flank or failed at keeping his units alive and wasted them into uselessness.

That usually leads people to smurf so that they get games with their friends.
"Play against the best so you l2p" is a typical comment to defend such a thing. I've had it couple of times when I first joined EiR. I simply avoided games and joined to games where were new like people. Sometimes they were smurfs sometimes they werent.

Its up to the community to fix it no  one else can touch it really...or prevent it

[Mysthalin]

When I started, I was personaly almost instantly taken in by a few older players in the community, who would take me into their matches of one good guy and me versus two other good guys. I learned that way the quickest, though I didn't really shy away from noob + me vs 2 veteran players, or any other kind of combination. It was a fun experience, even though I lost quite a lot of games - it was the way I lost them : being respected as an enemy, nevermind of inferior skill at the time, that made them fun.

[Two]

When i started the only game i could get in was always against draken and chefartz and occasionally some newer players, lost to draken 3 times then i won 4th time by alot, was chuffed. So there is your proof, play the best you become the best mkay.

[Smokaz]

Sometimes stacking is actually fair, like when us more addicted players want to get a good game going by recruiting the players we know are good to both teams. Nobody wants to have to bring out the excuses or tears from the other players whom we enjoy playing with on our team as well by stomping them and their  bad teammtes.

So it goes both ways: if you are facing a team of players which probably all could have beaten you in 1v1 or are very good then you dont want one guy without ventrilo, who doesnt listen to cries for help and who doesnt even cross the bridge out of his spawn. The fact is that lots of these players who feel miffed by other people's reluctance to team with them usually fails on more than the ingame level, like being laggers not having ventrilo etc.

Its more than being bad at the game sometimes, it takes time to get a EIRR game organized so people prefer playing with other players they know wont cause problems.

I think almost all of the "stackers" (except a known pair) prefers even or challenging games over noobstomps.

[CafeMilani]

is 'counterstacking' fair?
i mean, if u see a stacked game and u know "ha i can get a better team, we'll wtfpwn you..is that necassary?

[wildfire444]

hell freek, i had a lot of fun in the game earlier with that noob we were helping!

[Warlight]

You make a valid point, though is this about the game earlier? 

You and Wild and Scotz vs. Me (Chaplainwarlight) and Fritz and... whiskey? 

I've been trying to help him, I've played him three times.  He is definatly better than he was.  Just needs to figure out how to organize his army.

Though I won't lie, I avoid playing some people because I know they are that much better than I.  Being axis its easier.  Just watch out for people like Smokaz and his odd names. 

Though at the moment... Scotzman is the only new players I've seen around.  He tries the odd thing here and there, but hows he going to learn if people don't play with him.

[#Freek]

Thought I replied earlier, hm.

Anyhow, this post didn't really have anything to do with prior game- it was a fun match.  Granted it was, by definition, stacked; and we did lose.. but we had fun doing it.

My problem is with those 'experts' (whom I won't name) that bait/lure noobs into stomps.  Maybe when they introduce those bonuses, this will be less of an issue; but maybe some1 should make a comp stomp w/ EiR combat.. just so it's not total culture shock for newer vCoH guys.

[31stPzGren]

1. Where is the mentor/mentee/helper program?

Which is supposed to be in place with the new EiRR to help newbies? Are newbies aware that such aid is provided to them? Is anyone going around actively helping newbies?

2. I have mentioned before that the exclusiveness of PP earned in battle can promote more stacking.

Why play with a newbie and lose your PP-intensive army over one game? You gain 3PP per battle but stand to lose all your PPs if you play with a poor player. Thats limited reward, "unlimited" loss. No one does that.

3. Veterancy is another factor for stacking.

An army which is hard to vet will make people stack even more because of the difficulty in vetting and the sheer amount of kills you can get from stomping noobs.

I propose that veterancy gives small bonuses (5-10% boosts, I think this may already be in place, I never read the veterancy tables) and veterancy be easily achieved. Good players will be more willing to play with poor players to teach them as they can vet up their loss troops easily again.

Short of the most hardcore vet whores whom you can never "convert", it will at least reduce the disadvantages of helping out newbies.

4. Prestige.

There is more prestige to be had in veteran units and having fantastic win-loss stats than to help newbies. Recognition should be given somehow to players who fight battles where the odds are stacked against them.

For this to work you have to eliminate the problem of smurfing &  stats-wiping.

Apart from that, there is nothing to be gained from helping newbies. Don't expect everyone out here to be a Samaritan and go out of their way to ensure a new player gets a fun game.

5. Bonuses

Bonuses does nothing. Giving bonuses to newbies who don't know how to use them is just pointless. However, if the bonuses are too good, they encourage smurfing to grieve companies.

[#Freek]

What if every account had 1 axis, and 1 allied company; and the sides were 'autobalanced' by the launcher.  You wouldn't know which side you'd be on, until you got to CoH.

May annoy those who want to play with certain m8's, but it'd go a long way to eliminate stacking.

[Akranadas]

Advantage System.

[sgMisten]

Advantage System.

The main issue with the coming-soon systems is that they have not been implemented yet, yet issues such as doctrine-related balance, stacking, newbie advantages exist. If the coming-soon systems are coming within a week or month maybe we can wait, but if it takes a few months then we'll need interim, temporary systems as stop gaps to keep the field fair.

It's akin to an old dam that has cracks in it. A new dam further down the river will be built, which will solve any flooding issues. The question is will the old dam break apart before the new dam is done? Or do you want to apply some temporary concrete 'plasters' to the old dam to buy time for the new dam to be built?

[Akranadas]

Coming soon, as in really soon; like when the restart happens.

We as the developers can only do so much to stop stacking with systems like Advantages; it's up to you as the players to not stack.

[31stPzGren]

We as the developers can only do so much to stop stacking with systems like Advantages; it's up to you as the players to not stack.

Not true.

You can design the game to reduce the benefits of stacking and the "downside" or "risk" of playing with poorer players.

Systems like "Advantages" has a potential to spawn more problems or do nothing at all.

A lousy player is one who doesn't know how to use his units and abilities efficiently. Seriously, what makes you think that giving them some small abilities will give them a fighting chance? You can give calliopes with dual rocket rack upgrades and if they don't know how to use it properly, they will still get their ass kicked by pros.

Whats your concept on game balance? Whats your take on balancing "high-level" gameplay? At times, it is really difficult to comprehend the implemented balance decisions.

[EIRRMod]

1. Where is the mentor/mentee/helper program?

Which is supposed to be in place with the new EiRR to help newbies? Are newbies aware that such aid is provided to them? Is anyone going around actively helping newbies?

There is?
*shrug*

2. I have mentioned before that the exclusiveness of PP earned in battle can promote more stacking.

Why play with a newbie and lose your PP-intensive army over one game? You gain 3PP per battle but stand to lose all your PPs if you play with a poor player. Thats limited reward, "unlimited" loss. No one does that.

As you are playing a *BETA* version, how can you expect all pieces to work with the exclusion of others yet-to-be-added?

Simple, you cant.

The incentive to play with newer players - for Higher ranked players, will simply be a larger PP awarded to them if they do so.
The newer players themselves get their 'Training-Battle Advantages' that help them, if only slightly.

The Ultimate incentive, will be when the Warmap enters.  You will gain higher outcomes vs players of same or better skill than you would newb stomping.
While some people may not care - and do it anyway for the PPs, they will slowly cause the loss of the war for their side.

3. Veterancy is another factor for stacking.

An army which is hard to vet will make people stack even more because of the difficulty in vetting and the sheer amount of kills you can get from stomping noobs.

I propose that veterancy gives small bonuses (5-10% boosts, I think this may already be in place, I never read the veterancy tables) and veterancy be easily achieved. Good players will be more willing to play with poor players to teach them as they can vet up their loss troops easily again.

Short of the most hardcore vet whores whom you can never "convert", it will at least reduce the disadvantages of helping out newbies.

Fair point, but one that will not change as long as you pay PP for veterancy.
And, as PP is based to be gained and lost frequently, this wont change (well, not drastically)

However, the Vet bonuses are being revamped to make them more attractive - yet that will add to their 'holding back' of vet units.
Again, there is no reason to risk them - except when the Warmap enters.

4. Prestige.
There is more prestige to be had in veteran units and having fantastic win-loss stats than to help newbies. Recognition should be given somehow to players who fight battles where the odds are stacked against them.

For this to work you have to eliminate the problem of smurfing &  stats-wiping.

Apart from that, there is nothing to be gained from helping newbies. Don't expect everyone out here to be a Samaritan and go out of their way to ensure a new player gets a fun game.

Yet.
Commander bonuses will be added sometime soon - Training Advantages first.

5. Bonuses

Bonuses does nothing. Giving bonuses to newbies who don't know how to use them is just pointless. However, if the bonuses are too good, they encourage smurfing to grieve companies.

Bonuses do nothing?  Oooo k.
You are correct, I cant help newer players 'play better' as skill can never be helped - but I can increase the odds that an equally skilled player who plays from time to time, vs a 'Grinder' will have better odds.

[31stPzGren]

There is?
*shrug*

1. There was one in discussion in EiR which was 'agreed' upon to take off once EiRR is released. I won't raise any names here.

As you are playing a *BETA* version, how can you expect all pieces to work with the exclusion of others yet-to-be-added?

2. Thanks for the explanation. Is it possible to put up a list of known problems/issues and what the developers are working to solve? That way people can refer to it instead of making new threads etc.

The larger PP must be really substantial to warrant the very possible loss of special troops & veterancy.

Fair point, but one that will not change as long as you pay PP for veterancy. And, as PP is based to be gained and lost frequently, this wont change (well, not drastically)

However, the Vet bonuses are being revamped to make them more attractive - yet that will add to their 'holding back' of vet units.
Again, there is no reason to risk them - except when the Warmap enters.

3. Well, then this will have to be how you guys design & handle the PP system then.

Yet.
Commander bonuses will be added sometime soon - Training Advantages first.

4.Refer to "2."

Bonuses do nothing?  Oooo k.
You are correct, I cant help newer players 'play better' as skill can never be helped - but I can increase the odds that an equally skilled player who plays from time to time, vs a 'Grinder' will have better odds.

5. If you put it that way, fine. I agree it does help those who don't have as much time to dedicate to gaming in facing off against the top players.

However the people concerned here are nubs who gets stacked so horrendously that they can still lose with the most imba doctrines etc.

[BigDick]

make something like exp and pp gain depends on winning % compared to your opponents AND your teammates