Axis Suggestions/Balance

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[Scyn]

The purpose of this thread is for community input about the axis factions. Please only make Suggestions and Balance related issues. Please only post Once, if you have something additional to add, Modify your original post. This thread will be reviewed at a later date, please do not criticize other peoples' suggestions in this thread. This is Not a discussion thread, this is about brainstorming and improvements to be made that we may have missed.

[Baine]

Ehum, I would bring up the Officer with the Mp40. I think it would be rather useful to have a Luger with slightly increased accuracy per level than a Mp40.

Officer is someone that will fight over range and Mp40 at range sucks. A luger is a powerful weapon, though it won't make him a superunit.

[Malevolence]

PaK needs to regain cloaked mobility and decloak after the first shot rather than after 2ish. Let it retain cloak first strike bonus imo, but keep the long cooldown before recloak as it currently has or has had previously (make it take as long to recloak as if it had fired those 2 shots required to uncloak it in the first place, since cooldown before recloak stacks per shot).

Make the KT less crap for the price, no ideas on how it should be done.

Consider price ratio on the mortar for Wehrmacht and PE - why is it so few munitions but so much manpower?

Make the officer get two lugers at vet 3 if it isn't unpossible, because that'd be epic.

EDIT - Agree with Pauli on this from a long time ago, I forgot about it:

Repair – Remove the repair ability on all axis units except repair bunker and Berge Tiger. Repair speed needs to be inverted. Small front line repairs should be faster. It should take very long to repair res/yellow tanks.

Also Panther, Ostwind, and Tiger should be considered to have their pops reduced by one, as well as the KT for part of the KT's very necessary buff procedure.

[Sharpshooter14]

I think if the wehr Pak38 could move in camo it should Shoot once and then uncloak for maybe a minute before it is automatically recloaked? It still fires uncloaked but it gives allies plenty of time to be able to target it and in that window of time the axis have to do a bit more to protect their Pak38 then just move it to the side after it shoots, to summarize my jibberish,

The axis player needs to think about when he wants to reveal location of pak38, pretty much an ambush tool that can't keep ''re-ambushing'' the unit after the first shot, its exposed like a 57mm would be..

[NightRain]

I like the Officer Idea and Wish to keep it there because it is kinda cool to get a Submachine gun at vet 2 at least he can defend himself if someone rushes up to him and in most cases someone WILL rush for him! Officer Artillery Barrage Cooldown required make him little more expensive to match the Shorter Cooldown

8.8 cm should be moveable like a British Emplacement. I've not counted how many times it will get artied down after it has been built. Maybe same agreement on Howy but since this is Axis only I'll save it for the other thread. 8.8cm mobility will be pack up then move. Like British Emplacements with longer build and movement time.

PE need Smoke. They absolutely need ability to throw smoke grenades in order to destroy MG emplacements that chews down their vehicles with AP rounds. Mortar Halftrack is for now their only key to destroy those emplacements.
P4 IST should need a Upgun Upgrade that makes it like a Regular P4. This can be done by addind additional Fuel and MP Cost to match Wehrmacht Panzer Four.

PE Longs for a Jeep like Spotter. Ketten a purr device that just rolls the map doing nothing (Useful only with Luftwaffen because of Cloak maybe useful with Repair in Tank Hunter). If PE can get a Jeep like thing maybe a Motorcycle in order to make PE's Sniper counters more effective than it now is.

PAK When I've watched the replays and noticed the PAK's cloak ability reduced it gets Artied quite quicklier this time. I recomment 1 Shot Cloak off but not Only Cloaked when still.

King Tiger could use a Price Reduce, this beast is rarely seen in action these days.

BergeTiger requires some sort of Buffs where they doctorinal or not. Its a heavy tank with heavy crush which requires some sort of credit but it still eats a lot of pop and precious fuel PE units long for. It's repair rates should be increased to be the fastest due to it being completely a repair unit.

[gamesguy2]

Henschel -Halve the damage per shot.  Its far too powerful in EIR due to slow repairs.  I've seen it destroy 2 quads and cripple a sherman on the first pass. 

Butterfly Bombs - Reduce crit vs vehicles.  It should not crit as much as normal mines against vehicles.  They are anti-infantry weapons, and as such tanks should be run them over without consequence.  Change them to be the same crit as a grenadier grenade.

Flak88 - Reduce crew protection to light cover, or heavilly increase cost.   They are far too powerful atm.  Especially in combination with a flakvierling, which is extremely potent vs infantry.   Artillery doesnt do much to a flak 88 and with good positioning its impossible to mortar it without getting owned by the flak.   Reduce crew protection to light cover instead of the uber 88 cover it has now.  Alternatively, heavilly increase its cost and pop.

Scout Car - Needs a vision upgrade.  Say 30 munitions for +15 vision, +5 stealth detection radius, and halve the damage output.

Med Kit - Only usable in friendly territory, alternatively +50% received accuracy and damage for 10 seconds after use.  Med kits are currently used as an offensive combat weapon rather than out of battle regeneration like theyre supposed to be.

Assault Grenade and G43 Slow - Should not work on retreating units, and retreating should break all stun effects.

Precision Arty - Remove or increase drop timer by 2 seconds. It is currently not possible to dodge precision arty when its dropped on a deployed weapon team.  Its a "target vet 3 mortar dies" button.

Mortar Halftrack - Needs smoke barrage.  Make it a seperate upgrade that costs munitions.

Tiger Ace - Increase on the move accuracy to .75, increase pop cost by 3, decrease PP cost to 4.  Increase fuel cost by 50.

Newbie Advantages - Increase the effects. There is too big an gap between a high pp company and a low pp company.   Newbie advantages need buffed.  Maybe implement some kind of reinforcement call in similar to offmap combat group for newbie advantage.    So you can get a couple of extra riflemen and a sherman if the gap in PP is too great.

Offmaps vs Onmaps - Increase onmap artillery gun/weapon resistance to offmap artillery, but not the crew. Similar to how the flak 88 gun itself is extremely resistant to artillery.  Static onmap artillery such as howitzers and nebels should be easy to decrew with counter-arty, but difficult to destroy.  Do not increase their resistance to normal weapons.  A couple of shrek hits should still destroy a howitzer.  


Price Adjustments

• G43- 50 munitions, with the G43 slow ability costing 25 munitions extra to buy, reduce cooldown on G43 slow by one minute.
• Walking Stuka – Fuel reduction
• Tiger – Reduce manpower cost by 100.
• KCH – Remove munitions cost.  Increase manpower cost to 400.
• Fallschirmjager – Increase manpower cost to 300, munitions cost to 180. 
• MP40s - Reduce cost to 60 munitions.
• Puma Upgun - Reduce cost to 50 munitions.
• AT Grenade - Reduce cost to 20 munitions.

Population Adjustments

• Armored Car- 7 pop(+1)
• Fallschirmjager – 6 pop(+1)
• Panzer IV IS – 10 pop(-2)
• Stormtroopers - 6 pop(+1)
• Stuh – 9 pop(+1)
• Ostwind - 10 pop(-1)
• MG42 - 4 pop(+1)
• Flammewerfer HT- 6 pop(+1)
• Marder III - 6 pop(-2), reduce sight while deployed to 45 like other AT guns

Others

• Hummel - Remove from reinforcements.

[Mysthalin]

Butterfly bombs could use a look at - they cause engine damages and immobilisations as often as normal mines do. Their anti-inf capability is fine, and should stay as is.

Henschel strafing runs are far too potent - maybe decrease the damage per rocket? It's accuracy is OK, as far as I'm concerned - the ammount of damage it does is not.

88s need a look at. Previously they took too long to set up, now it's a bit too short. Either that, or the 88s range and survivability is a bit off-key. The ammount of damage it does, even when the shot is bounced, is ludicrous - if an 88 is set up, it usualy sets the tone for the game, it's ridiculously hard to get rid of an 88, and the current build timer and cost is either too low, or the 88 is just too strong. If it would also become moveable, it would become quite broken. So yeah, something about the 88 is wrong, and needs tuning. More succeptibility to artilery, maybe? Would make up for the self-healing gun :S.

Officer vet 2 needs to retain it's heroic armor and get an StG44 instead of an MP40.

Paks are quite OK right now - they're fullfilling the role they're made for, and do not need much change - other than the removal of the ability to cloak back in the middle of combat.

Fallschirmjaeger ambush bonus is a bit ludicrous and needs to be taken a look at - they can already destroy a lot with their FG42s, if they're in cloak, they can take on entire platoons worth of riflemen all by them selves, without taking a casualty.

BergeTiger requires a small medium buff.

Marder III needs to cost 6 pop instead of 8, cost is alright.

Hetzer pop from 10 to 9 should encourage people to use it more often.

Grant the kettenkrad a 25 MP "scouting" upgrade that would make it's LOS 5 units higher than the jeep's, but removing it's ability to use the Tank Hunter repairs, booby traps, etc.

Assault grenades should be reverted to standard assault grenades, if possible.

Precision arty drop time increased by 2 seconds so that ATGs have the option to actualy get out of the barrage if you react immediately.

Panzerfaust reverted if possible - the 10 damage it does to the tank is just loltasticly low. I don't get why people even use them anymore.

Tiger Ace should either have 1000 HP and uber speed + turret rotation, or 1500 health and standard speed + turret rotation, not both. Then it can cost a normal ammount of PPs to use, not 6 each -.-

KT needs a 10 percent speed buff so it can semi-outrun a sticky.

Volks and grens unlimited availability.

MG available at vet 1, Skirts at vet 2 for tanks.

Suppresion on all non-HMG versions of the MG42 halved.

[SaintPauli]

Med kits – Only in friendly territory

Stun – Should not affect retreating units.

Slow - Should not affect retreating units.

PaK - needs to regain cloaked mobility and decloak after the first shot.

Halftracks – Give halftrack the ability to preload other units. 

Exploding vehicles - Increase number of casualties on transported units

Vampire Halftrack – Need an increase in radius of map hack ability. 

Mortar Halftrack –Smoke ability available for purchase.

Smoke ability – Available for purchase on all tanks

Repair – Remove the repair ability on all axis units except repair bunker and Berge Tiger. Repair speed needs to be inverted. Small front line repairs should be faster. It should take very long to repair res/yellow tanks.   

Offmap artillery – Offmap artillery creates a big imbalance between new and experience companies. One of the problems is that offmap artillery makes onmap artillery useless. This means that new companies won’t have any artillery until they unlock offmaps. This normally requires 15-20 games because you also “need” to unlock other units and resource bonuses to compete. At the same time the experienced players can field both offmap and onmap artillery against new companies without the fear of loosening them. In a high level game the offmaps renders onmap artillery useless for both sides. So once again. I urge you to remove offmaps from the game.   


Price adjustment:

•   Walking Stuka – Fuel reduction
•   PzIV – Fuel reduction
•   Tiger – Price reduction
•   KCH – Price reduction
•   Fallschirmjager – Price increase   
•   Mortar Halftrack – Fuel increase
•   Panzerfaust – Price reduction
•   MP40 – Price reduction
•   Armor Skirts - Price reduction
•   Puma Upgun - Price reduction
•   AT Grenade - Price reduction
•   Bunker - Price increase  - 0 pop neutral building.


Population adjustments:

•   Armored Car 7 pop (+1)
•   Fallschirmjager 6 pop (+1)
•   Kettenkrad 2 pop (+1)
•   Mortar Halftrack 7 pop (+1)
•   Panzer IV IS 10 pop (-2)
•   Panther 15 pop (-1)
•   PAK 5 pop (+1)
•   Stormtroopers 6 pop (+1)
•   Puma 7 pop (-1)
•   Stuh 9 pop (+1)
•   Walking Stuka 7 pop (-1)
•   Östwind 10 pop (-1)
•   Tiger 16 pop (-1)
•   King Tiger 18 pop (-1)
 

Following units should be taken out of the reinforcement packages:

•   Hummel 

[spinn72]

- If possible give Repair Bunkers a 2-3 pop so they aren't totally free.
- Reduce Repair Rate of Pioneers to prevent effectiveness of Piospam.
- Increase Health of Panzer Grenadiers, Assault Grenadiers and Tank Busters by 20%. (important)
- Increase Population of Mortar Halftrack to 7 population
- Increase Range of P4IST and also moving accuracy so it is a threat to infantry (about the same as an ostwind)
- Pak Decloaks after 1 Shot, Falls Decloak after 3.

- Naturally Give PE Group Zeal to increase effectiveness of fighting together, or else make it a doctrine ability for Scorched Earth.

- Increase Damage of Hetzer Gun, but increase likelyhood of the Gun being damaged.


I'm more a PE player.  What i'm really finding is a lack of standard Anti Infantry or Anti Tank for that matter.  If i pick Tank Destroyer tactics, i get the AT required (teller mines and Doubleshrecks, and possibly a Jagd).  If i Pick Luftewaffe i get the Anti Infantry (butterfly bombs, Falls, Whirblewind). 

Right now PE are the worst team out there.

[Two]

King Tiger gets pop reduced to 17 or 18.
KT gets faster turret rotation at vet 3 along with current vet bonuses.

Officer can pick up weapons.

Pgrens need a damage buff with and without g43's.
All pgrens (including TB and assault) get better damage resistance.

Pak decloaks after 1 shot.

Suppression on HT's and tanks gets reduced, right now a wehr HT insta pins squads when driving right into them.

[Lt_Apollo]

Officer- pick up weapons as well as get a MP44 at vet 3 (keep MP40 for vet 2)

PGs- add medpacks as an upgrade as PE have no natral health regain.

Assualt Grens- needs health buff and supresion resistance

Pak- needs to be able to move while cloked but can only shoot 1 shot befor decloke (far to mutch arty spam nowadays for stationary cloke)

Sprint (for tank busters)- doctrine choice for tank hunters under the second shrek tree.

Panzerfuast(or tankbuters) doctrine choice for tank hunters above second shreck (replaces AT nade)

[31stPzGren]

Edited: to remove criticism.

I strongly urge the development team to NOT CHANGE ANY POPULATION CAP AT ALL except for the most immediate and necessary units.

I for one dislike most of the suggestions made here, although they were made in good spirit because of the contingent effect of having doctrines and the inevitable buff to allies.

Combine that with popcap, we may return to the point of allied superiority over axis in old eir.

There are a field ways to limit unit availability, pop cap and unit cost. Popcap limits combined arms and effective popcap usage where as unit cost, promotes efficient combined arms but require more stringent usage of return of cost.

Limiting by Popcap reduces tactical variety and value to the game, in order to achieve "control" where as unit cost, allows you to achieve "control" over it without limiting tactical variety and value.

The wehr faction is well balanced as it is and should not be further touched. It is the PE faction which requires work. The best thing to do at the moment, is to take out PP cost from veterancy and reduce veterancy benefits significantly. This will balance the game a lot more for new vs old companies while still giving the experienced player a slight edge.

[Baine]

PE light tanks like Wirblewind,Marder,P4 should get a better(lower) recieved Penetration with Veterancy, as they rely heavily on tanks. If those things get 3 shotted at Vet0 its ok but 3 shotted at Vet 3 is dumb :/

Also the Wehr and in that connection the US faction seem to me as both the best balanced yet.

[Bubz]

Precision Strike needs to have longer drop time.

Medikits shouldn't be used as weapons or to stand a fight, so I think zeal penalties are ok, friendly or enemy territory don't help because they could still be used as Steroyds or For The Fatherland style which is not the purpose of medikits.

Stormtroopers shouldn't be able to cloack underfire, or while pinned, but they should exit the fight zone to recloack. Just had a game where bars suppressed stormies and those crawl back 2 meters and then cloacked.

Reduce Accuracy between all Atguns 57mm is the ultimate defensive weapon for americans, and pak snipe is still present, so I think reducing the accuracy of both should even things up.

Assault Nades probably reverted to old nades, more damage but drops the stun ability.
It would be cool if you can limit the numbers of nades thrown or something like to 3-4 volleys, because they are unlimited.

Burst Bug obviously not fix'able

Suppression of Mounted Mgs Halftrack mgs, Tank Mg and IHT Mg have an insane suppression (1-2 burst to suppress), if possible and not caused by burst bug it would even to have these decreased, as well as allied counter parts.

Stuh&Stug could use an increase in pop, and decrease in mg suppression, 8 pop is a bit low, considering the m10 is 10 population, and they cost about the same and stug is easier to keep alive.

IHT Armor reverted at least the iht armor should be reverted to its normal state, if the problem was the armor vs atguns just buff penetration, infanty should be able to take on those with normal weapons, PE should be balanced with costs/pop/avalaibility adjusments like all the other factions, not with radical stats changes

[BigDick]

Offmaps
- delay between smoke and until they come should be increased that it is possible to save your units when you pay attention (that fit for all offmaps from all factions)

Stukka

- pop increase 8->9/10

Nebelwerfer

- pop increase 7->8/9
- price increase 400MP 35mun 100fuel -> 400MP 50Mun 150Fuel
- more speed on vet1

Volksgrenadiere

- mp40 price decrease 70->60
- availability increase 8->10

Sturmtruppen

- remove assault nade function from them
- medpak price increase 15-20mun (high value units)
- only one shrek purchaseable

pak38

- decloake after first shoot but recloak after some time without firering
- moveable while cloaked
- reduce accuracy against other AT guns

Skirts

- should cost fuel and not munition

Panther

- pop 16->15
- why does a panther need much more exp than a pershing for vet? exp requirements (0.3->0.4)
- why is vettable of pershing (heavier allround tankmuch much better) than wehr panther?

Tiger

- pop 17->16
- pp 2 (like pershing)
- price adjustments
- exp requirements (0.3->0.4 like pershing)

Tiger Ace

-pop 17
- pp 4
- price adjustments
- exp requirements (0.1->0.3)

Kingtiger

-pop 18
-pp4
-price adjustments
- exp requirements (0.2->0.3)
Hummel

- pop increase 10pop->12pop since it is much easier killable (slower, crap armor) than a calliope but still no frontline unit pp "increase" 4-5pp

Marder

- decrease accuracy against AT guns
- decrease pop to 5 (when AT guns stay at 4 otherwise 6)

im not for messing around with vCOH unit stats but i don't know what to do to make the PE not the suckers of this mod

tankbusters

- armor type soldier->infantry + HP increase to compensate that

assault grenadiers

- health buff

panzergrenadiers

- G43 cost decrease to 50

Mortar Halftrack

- munitions increase to 80mun

AT halftrack

- decrease treadbreaker price to 95mun->80mun
- increase focus fire price 45mun->65mun
...to be continued....

[Ununoctium]

Regular PanzerGrenadiers need to be less prone to supression and the mortar ht needs +5 range.
Stormtroopers increase popcap to 7. they are really a lot more powerful than other things and this i a good equivalent popcap for their power.

[Jodomar]

The only thing i have to say is that a atg can move out of the way of Precision Arty, because I have seen that happen. Mg's and mortars can't really get out of the way of it. Besides what would be the point of having Precision Arty if you can't hit anything with it? I'm for taking all pre-off map smoke out of the game and replace it with sounds of arty firing or something like that. This way you know the off map is coming but you have no idea where. That might be a little to hard core but it is an idea.

[Groundfire]

Quoted from ppl who got the right idea...

Repair – Remove the repair ability on all axis units except repair bunker and Berge Tiger. Repair speed needs to be inverted. Small front line repairs should be faster. It should take very long to repair res/yellow tanks.

Offmaps vs Onmaps - Increase onmap artillery gun/weapon resistance to offmap artillery, but not the crew. Similar to how the flak 88 gun itself is extremely resistant to artillery.  Static onmap artillery such as howitzers and nebels should be easy to decrew with counter-arty, but difficult to destroy.  Do not increase their resistance to normal weapons.  A couple of shrek hits should still destroy a howitzer. 

Newbie Advantages - Increase the effects. There is too big an gap between a high pp company and a low pp company.   Newbie advantages need buffed.  Maybe implement some kind of reinforcement call in similar to offmap combat group for newbie advantage.    So you can get a couple of extra riflemen and a sherman if the gap in PP is too great.

Precision Arty - Remove or increase drop timer by 1 seconds. It is currently not possible to dodge precision arty when its dropped on a deployed weapon team.  Its a "target vet 3 mortar dies" button. Edit- I think what lies in the problem with this is that the one precision shell is a howie 105 or hummel shell. Mabey make it so that what drops are the shells equivilant to the wehr officer arty. 3 of those morter shells would proabily be good enough

Assault Grenade and G43 Slow - Should not work on retreating units, and retreating should break all stun effects.

Medikits shouldn't be used as weapons or to stand a fight, so I think zeal penalties are ok, friendly or enemy territory don't help because they could still be used as Steroyds or For The Fatherland style which is not the purpose of medikits.

Pak38- I actually think they are completely fine and balanced as they are right now.
If we are to allow magic paks to move cloaked again, they should get 1 shot before decloak.
I dont think this is right tho. People need to learn to move their shit and relocate their ATGs properly. I had absolutely no difficulty using Paks when the switch was made.

Henschel -Halve the damage per shot.  Its far too powerful in EIR due to slow repairs.  I've seen it destroy 2 quads and cripple a sherman on the first pass.

Butterfly Bombs - Reduce crit vs vehicles.  It should not crit as much as normal mines against vehicles.  They are anti-infantry weapons, and as such tanks should be run them over without consequence.  Change them to be the same crit as a grenadier grenade.

Nebelwerfer

- pop increase 7->8/9
- price increase 400MP 35mun 100fuel -> 400MP 50Mun 150Fuel
- more speed on vet1

[perfil02]

Precision Arty - Remove or increase drop timer by 2 seconds. It is currently not possible to dodge precision arty when its dropped on a deployed weapon team.  Its a "target vet 3 mortar dies" button.

What would be the point of an off map with a SINGLE shot that would be dodgeable even with support teams ( not to talk about infatry ).
Allied artillery offmpas kills support axis support teams almost always too, and can be used against infatry or buildings.

[Mysthalin]

*requires this and the previous post by perfil removed*

I want an off-map on the allied side that always unnegateably rapes a pak, as soon as it's within my LOS(not even neceseraly detected), then.

The point would be to use it in conjunction with an attack, not send up a bike, spot it, and kill it instantly.

*end off-topic*