the heavy tank thread

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[Unkn0wn]

And penetration

[Staplerfahrer]

I love that its not even contested that the Jagdpanther is a turd.

[Tymathee]

a tiger ace is a tiger with slightly more HP that is faster and a little bit more splash
thats it

50% more hp and as fast as a panther with better turret rotation.

I was gonna say that. Like I said Tiger Ace = Vet 3 Tiger.

I love that its not even contested that the Jagdpanther is a turd.

well, there's a vet 3 jagdpanthers that's tops on the leaderboard, so it must not be a total waste

[RaptorCommander]

I love that its not even contested that the Jagdpanther is a turd.

well, there's a vet 3 jagdpanthers that's tops on the leaderboard, so it must not be a total waste
[/quote]

That jag got saved by the 5% bug the other day in a 4v4 with me. Tetrarch swarm > jag

[Mysthalin]

a tiger ace is a tiger with slightly more HP that is faster and a little bit more splash
thats it

50% more hp and as fast as a panther with better turret rotation.

I was gonna say that. Like I said Tiger Ace = Vet 3 Tiger.


Vet 3 Tiger <<<<< Tiger ace tym...
The TA is the only tank (only tank in the entire game) which's gun can keep up with a tetrarch without rotating. Something even the tetrarch itself is not capable of.
50 percent more HP is way better than the bonuses a vet 3 tiger gets.
Better penetration and better speed than a panther also helps IMO.


To be honest, the TA's vet needs a slight buff to match the KT's, the pershing's needs to go down to match the KT, reworked vet requirements, and remove the CCT from reinforcements, and we got ourselves quite a balanced game.

Repair speed does not affect the game at all - I call out 4 engineers with flamethrowers to bring my pershing back up to speed after it gets down to 50 percent HP by the immense ammounts of cloaked paks - call out 6 flame pioneers and do the same. And if stuff suddenly tries to come for your tiger, use the flamethrowers to fuck it all up. Not to mention the awesome ability to roflcharge the enemy AT guns with all those flamethrowers for your tank to have a field day.

[Nijo]

i find it a bit funny to see axis complaining about one superior unit the allied might have 

[brn4meplz]

the CCT really dpes elevate the pershing into a god like status. 3.5-4 seconds between shells is too much. But the CCT stacks with the things like the FF and cromwell so it's a problem there too

[spinn72]

If you think about British Vehicles they are meant to be used with the CCT.  The firefly's fire rate is so slow it cannot be good at all.  Even with a CCT a panther will beat the Firefly in most cases (balance issue??), and the Firefly + CCT costs more everything.  that's probably due to the range of the Firefly being outside it's sight range, even when it has tank commander on.

American Vehicles already have good enough stats to be on their own.  They're not designed to be used with the CCT.

Also when talking about Tanks, you should probably closen the difference from P4s and Shermans/Cromwells to make it more interesting. 

[NightRain]

Ya know people...there IS a reason why there is only one Cromwell Command Tank available in VCoH...last time I played I saw Myst stuck 2 CCTs around his Pershing...talk about imbalance not that I'm sure if 2 CCT doubles the effect.


Axis Heavy tanks in-game were designed to be balanced with allied ones. Usually AT guns and Shermans will stop any tank dead in its tracks. Pretty much same in Axis side where PAk and few shrecks and special tank or a normal tank will turn every rushing tank to a burning wreck.

Firefly is meant to be used as a Long Range artillery. At Short range any tank can defeat it and that's its weakness. People should use Firefly like a Tiger. Infantry in front tank behind it. Brens will stop rushing panther in its tracks and it will go down quickly

[Schultz]

Tiger Ace
-Vet1 Received Damage 0.95
-Vet2 Penetration 1.05, Accuracy 1.05, Health 1.05
-Vet3 Received Penetration 0.95, Health 1.1


Jadgpanther
-Vet1 Received Damage 0.95
-Vet2 Accuracy 1.15, Health 1.1, speed 1.1
-Vet3 Received Penetration 0.9, Health 1.1


Oh wow now look at that eh.

The jagd is on the list of the long forgotten things pe have and are being neglected because noone bothers even discussing them let alone buy one and use it.
Maybe in the later months a dev out of giggles decide to use it, then maybe then will wonder about its vet, its price, its pop.
Jagd doesnt have a turret and is mainly an at weapon, meaning its sniping infantry capabilities are similar to the panther's.
Why does it have vet similar of the ace, is it because someone decided its so godlike ?

Tiger Ace - 900 MP, 700 F, 18 pop
Jagdpanther - 895 MP, 685 F, 18 pop


Bottom line, why Jagd costs and has similar vet bonuses to a TA when noone uses(except one crazy guy) and people dont even consider it in thread about heavy tanks. 

[nugnugx]

because jag is stug on 'roids that went wrong 

[BigDick]

@schultzz your right we forgot the jagdpanther
probably most dont like PE (because PE suck) and when we make a PE account it is in most cases Luftwaffe (because it is the less sucking PE doctrine)

but yeah same like the wehrmacht heavy tanks the jagdpanther has complete retarted vet requirements and crap boni and is overpriced and not cost effective (probably even more overpriced because PE needs their fuel for other things)

only good thing is its frontal armor and that AT guns hurts way less than if you would had a tiger ace

i find it a bit funny to see axis complaining about one superior unit the allied might have 

1. allies have some more "superior" units
2. its not about superior its all about effectiveness
3. pershing is fine but it is retarded to say "its ok that a panther gets crappier vet for more exp requirements or that vet1 has 8 times higher exp requirements on a tiger ace for crap vet"

[Tymathee]

well the jagd is basically a panther on steroids. It gets all of it's strengths (speed, tank penetration, armor) and only one of its weaknesses, anti-infantry plus more health and better armor, stronger resistance to penetration.

funny, at first TA's were used a lot, ditto tigers and king's but you dont see them much now. now, everyone is going blitz and spamming the cheaper storms using the precision arty and the stuh. No one uses terror anymore and i dont even think anyone uses defensive at all.

[Latios418]

Jagdpanther has _most_ of the strengths of the Panther. It is, of course, missing a turret, which is a strength for the the Panther (a very fast turret rotate speed) and the Jagd's biggest weakness.

[Tymathee]

well true, but it's nixed by the fact that you have to have an army of at to kill it. Heck, trying to kill a vet 0 one, w had to  use 4-5 bren guns, 4 at guns and it still took about 45 seconds to kill it.

[BigDick]

uh it took 45sec to kill 1/8 of MP ressources and 50% of fuel ressources a pe players has in a 30-50 min game

what an overpowered unit

[Tymathee]

did I say overpowered you ass? no i didn't. I was just merely making an observation of something that happened to me in a game. Get a life.

anyway, ignoring the big dick, I just found out the jagd is actually a lil bit faster than the  normal panther.

http://coh-stats.com/Vehicle:Jagdpanther 5.4 and 3 accel vs
http://coh-stats.com/Vehicle:Wehrmacht_Panther 5.2 and 2.5 accel

it also gets twice its health. will penetrate any front armor 100% of the time, other than a pershing and another jagd lol luckily it gets only a 40% chance of hitting infantry.That thing eats tanks.

[Rayze]

Quote from: jasfg9 on Today at 01:40:19 am
i find it a bit funny to see axis complaining about one superior unit the allied might have 


1. allies have some more "superior" units
2. its not about superior its all about effectiveness
3. pershing is fine but it is retarded to say "its ok that a panther gets crappier vet for more exp requirements or that vet1 has 8 times higher exp requirements on a tiger ace for crap vet"

I think the point was Allies have maybe 2/3 effective Armour units (unless you upgun a sherman against german heavy vehicles it normaly doesnt go well.)
The M10 is very effective its speed and penetration is good but you sneeze and you have wasted resources.

The pershing is hated atm because it is our main defence against the 4/5 or so german heavy tanks, we have one heavy unit that can combat (in a one on one situation in some cases with a struggle) some of there heavy units.

Whats so wrong about the vets bein abit better for the one heavy unit the allied have then the KT, T, AT,P, JP etc...
I do see how people think it might be unfair if anything maybe tamper with the veting alittle but i think if the performance in the tank is changed you may as well take out our armour division.

Atm its looking as Germans have 4/5 Heavy Tanks Tiger, King Tiger, Ace Tiger, Panther, JagPanther  v  Allied 1 Heavy Tanks Pershing

Take away the strength behind the Pershing and we lose our only damage soaking unit against Axis heavy armour. Doing this would remove a gameplay element from the Allies and push us to be even more bland, and could go as far as to dropping a few more Allied players, which if i recall, are rare enough as it is.

[Schultz]

Well a jagd is not a TA, it shouldnt cost like one, and it shouldnt get TA's crappy vet. Since most people cry about the tiger ace justified of course, its a good thing to bring everything in proportion.
So i suggest price/cost decrease to - 700-750 MP, 550 -600 F, 16 -17 pop max.
In addition i propose vet in parallel to that of a pershing.

Also since we have a nice and interesting mix crossover of american units getting buffed by brit ones, i promote the idea of a new unit - The Command p4 or tiger. Basically reskinned p4 or bergetiger with bonuses....
Theres so many obvious inbalances and injustices to this area, you cant have good vet for one faction and crappy for the other. You cant have additional bonuses that wasnt originated even for vcoh  given to one-sided and everythings ok, without giving additional care to provide for the other side of the game.

[EliteGren]

What? They announced long ago that the CCT is getting removed from the reinforcement package.