Nerf rangers, buff rifles?

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[Smokaz]

Right now I see an overdependency in american players on their elife inf. If it isnt reinforcement tommies or vet 3 airborne 3 shotting a hetzer from the front, its vet 3 rangers walking through kch and fallschirms and pwning them without losing any squad members. Rifles are used as blob machines, recrewing mans or mainly for their bar supression or sucide sticky raids. (At gun guards). Even when used right the rifles seem pretty weak atm, costing more than volks and generally being curbstomped by fallschirms or lmg grenadiers. Also, rangers are way too strong atm. Their veterancy is better than any other comparable infantry for the role they are used in. I posted the veterancy comparement between storms, kch, fallschirms and rangers a while back and it favored rangers badly.

I propose several fixes: a slight nerf to ranger veterancy, a buff to the defensive parts of riflemen veterancy. They are supposed to get tougher with veterancy and they just aren't currently. They still get mauled by everything even at vet 3. I saw a unupgraded rifleman squad at full health shoot at a single grenadier with less than full health for 20~ seconds before dropping him. Something has to be improved.

[Mgallun74]

sounds good too me.. i only field 2 Rangers in my unit... 12 rifles with 10 of them upgraded with something...

[VariantThirteen]

American players have ALWAYS been overdependant on their Elite Infantry in every iteration of CoH. It's the faction, it's their lynchpin, their keystone, their ace in the hole. It's the single biggest reason why Armoured Company is pretty much nothing but callyspam, and AB/INF are all about the FIRE UP. If you want to look at a design flaw in CoH that was there before OF, look at how elite infantry shape the metagame.

Right now, the fatigue nerf is still sinking in, and the T17 is too overpowered to ignore, so for the first time in vCoH, elite infantry aren't THE Ami faction.

If you want to slightly buff rifles, make Bars slightly cheaper, simple as that. Those things are beast upgrades.

[Warlight]

Bars are super Beasty, I don't think that making them cheaper is the write way to fix this problem.  If anything I thin granades could be made cheaper for rifles, to encourge using them in pairs.  One rifle supresses while another granades, or stickies. 

I wouldn't be agaisnt modifiing the vet, but leave the Bars alone.

Truthfuly if there was a way to make Zook Rifles that would probubly help.  But if that happens it will likly be a doctrain choice. 

Also though, I don't know if Nerfing one thing and buffing another will fix/change the fact that teh americans rely so much on their elite infanty.  I think the problem lies in the americans lack of selection.

[Scyn]

It's kind of hard to 'rely' on elite infantry when you're only allotted so much of it. While I agree that rangers seem overpowered in certain situations, they are easily cut down. Personally I can't believe no one complains how awesome commandos are.

[Baine]

I propose several fixes: a slight nerf to ranger veterancy, a buff to the defensive parts of riflemen veterancy. They are supposed to get tougher with veterancy and they just aren't currently. They still get mauled by everything even at vet 3. I saw a unupgraded rifleman squad at full health shoot at a single grenadier with less than full health for 20~ seconds before dropping him. Something has to be improved.

I agree, but

a buff to the defensive parts of riflemen veterancy

won't make them kill that single grenadier faster

[Scyn]

The defensive bonuses that infantry receives have been significantly toned down from EiR, and as you've noticed so have the veterancy requirements. Our goal here is to make vetted units reasonably obtainable whilst also making them reasonably easy to lose. As of right now most of what you see is vet easily obtained, but in the near future we hope to see our goal fulfilled.

[Sach]

I can't say I have ever been very impressed by riflemen in any iteration of EIR. Things are slightly better now with the increase in munitions but frankly if you want a specific job done ie kill infantry, kill vehicles, kill mgs, you almost never turn to rifles where as with axis you can turn to grens or even volks for a lot of things beyond recrewing,

EIR is bad for rifles in two main ways, fights are either long distance in which rifles suck or extreme short range with sub machine guns where rifles again really struggle.

[Two]

Rifles own, just spam suppression fire

Rifles with bars at vet 3 should get the assault bonus not the cover one.

[Unkn0wn]

I wish I could just post you the 006 balance changelog

[Scyn]

I feelz your pain, Unkster.

[Sach]

I wish I could just post you the 006 balance changelog

i wish my penis was longer than 2 inches but some times we just have to make do

[Mysthalin]

I dunno, riflemen are just not appealing. It's not so much the fact the rifles suck, it's the fact that everything around them MAKES them suck.
LMGs instakill them.
Tank MGs instasuppress them.
MGs instasuppress them.
Mortars just wtfpwn them.
And they're just.. not worth the effort using - at least with elite infantry you have the chance to get away if you fuck up by using fireup. If you walk into an MG with rifles, it's goodbye one guy - the triage ain't helping him. That being said, most my companies have 2 fully upgraded starting riflemen to protect an AT gun, and a huge blob of rifles to do a blobrush once their HMGs are down... Pretty much it.

[Bubz]

I've also noticed that they tend to die while you retreat them as well as when they fight, probably they are just depressed emos who want to die as soon as possible, you should consider substiting the T button with a I button, you hit, they explode, would be much more fun.

[Mysthalin]

goliath style explode button would really make rifles useful tbh.

[Latios418]

How about this for a buff? Give them the old fire-up, that has no disadvantages like fatigue. If stickies are purchased, replace this ability so you don't get lolabuse.

I think it would go a long way in helping them.

[Mysthalin]

actualy...
Give back the old fireup to the elite infantry, and the new fatigue version to rifles!

[Latios418]

That's just buffing rangers and AB, isn't that the opposite of what we want to do? =p

If you need it to be realistically justified, riflemen aren't carrying around bazookas so they don't get worn out from a short sprint.. We can pretend sticky bombs are heavy.

[Tymathee]

i can't believe that you guys are saying that the allies reply on their elite infantry so much without even pulling the axis spamming storms all over the place into this discussion? All I see lately are storms and falls and kch when I play. You can even bring grens into the equation because they're a very powerful unit hence the reason why there's like ten of them on the leaderboard and not one rifleman nor volks. The axis are just as dependent on their l337 infantry as the allies, especially blitz as I see everyone going for these days, which makes me wonder if storms need a price increase or a weapon price increase or something cuz blitz is used by maybe 70% of axis players.

[Mysthalin]

Airborne and rangers are much better trained than riflemen, therefore they have better stamina and don't become worn out like riflemen are after a short sprint .
Not to mention all the crap a rifleman has to carry around into battle - spade, rolls of barbwire and endless supply of sandbags, tank trap parts(no guidebook how to use it yet, though), shoelaces, etc. etc.