Nerf rangers, buff rifles?

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[Baine]

i can't believe that you guys are saying that the allies reply on their elite infantry so much without even pulling the axis spamming storms all over the place into this discussion? All I see lately are storms and falls and kch when I play. You can even bring grens into the equation because they're a very powerful unit hence the reason why there's like ten of them on the leaderboard and not one rifleman nor volks. The axis are just as dependent on their l337 infantry as the allies, especially blitz as I see everyone going for these days, which makes me wonder if storms need a price increase or a weapon price increase or something cuz blitz is used by maybe 70% of axis players.

I agree on the part with Eliteinfantry being important to both, especially because a bar can easily take down grens.

But what the hell? Why nerf them just because everyone goes for them. That's not the way to go man.

[Tymathee]

i can't believe that you guys are saying that the allies reply on their elite infantry so much without even pulling the axis spamming storms all over the place into this discussion? All I see lately are storms and falls and kch when I play. You can even bring grens into the equation because they're a very powerful unit hence the reason why there's like ten of them on the leaderboard and not one rifleman nor volks. The axis are just as dependent on their l337 infantry as the allies, especially blitz as I see everyone going for these days, which makes me wonder if storms need a price increase or a weapon price increase or something cuz blitz is used by maybe 70% of axis players.

I agree on the part with Eliteinfantry being important to both, especially because a bar can easily take down grens.

But what the hell? Why nerf them just because everyone goes for them. That's not the way to go man.

well that's the argument that they're making for rangers needing a nerf because they're being spammed, well, then nerf storms cuz they're always being spammed. It's the same argument.

[Mysthalin]

Storms are currently rather fine, IMO, it's just that nothing else is as appealing for wehrmacht - when doctrines are in, more people will be going for defensive and terror, IMO. If not, something will have to be done to improve the OTHER units, not nerf the storms - they just need to lose damage bonuses on their veterancy so they can't instarape shermans, same for grenadiers - that shouldn't happen. Vet should be nice, but not to the extenct of 2 double-shreks killing a sherman instantly.

[Scaevola]

American players have ALWAYS been overdependant on their Elite Infantry in every iteration of CoH. It's the faction, it's their lynchpin, their keystone, their ace in the hole. It's the single biggest reason why Armoured Company is pretty much nothing but callyspam, and AB/INF are all about the FIRE UP. If you want to look at a design flaw in CoH that was there before OF, look at how elite infantry shape the metagame.

Right now, the fatigue nerf is still sinking in, and the T17 is too overpowered to ignore, so for the first time in vCoH, elite infantry aren't THE Ami faction.

If you want to slightly buff rifles, make Bars slightly cheaper, simple as that. Those things are beast upgrades.

Pre OF rangers were terrible. I would laugh if the enemy brought them on. Airborne RR's have always been potent, but firestorm just used to devastate airborne.

[Mysthalin]

Pre OF rangers could roll over EVERYTHING. The bazookas would never miss - you could just spam them, then overrun everything you'd meet with thompsons and zooks. Megablob unlimited.

[Latios418]

Airborne and rangers are much better trained than riflemen, therefore they have better stamina and don't become worn out like riflemen are after a short sprint Wink.
Not to mention all the crap a rifleman has to carry around into battle - spade, rolls of barbwire and endless supply of sandbags, tank trap parts(no guidebook how to use it yet, though), shoelaces, etc. etc.

I realize my explanation is shoddy, but it's something. Balance > realism, and honestly I think old fire-up would be _just_ what rifles need.

Clearly only vcoh inf company riflemen have to carry around sandbags, rolls of barbed wire, and other equipment. All other riflemen can't build anything (well, vcoh ones can build OPs). That could be an alternative buff to old fire-up, allowing them to build the basic stuff an engineer can. I think the fire-up is much more appropriate for them though.

[LeoPhone]

you want to give rifles fire up?

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

and then they say my ideas are bad....

[Hicks359]

Why not give Rifles an upgrade to allow for a single Zook in the squad?

I mean christ, Bazookas were nearly as much as a common sight as BAR's back in the war (Perhaps a slight exaggeration, but you get the idea), so why not?

Would help Rifles have the "Flexible" feel, whilst still being a weak-ish platform, the ye olde jack of all trades.

That or let them perform better against other infantry, as it stands, unless your sat behind heavy cover and they are in open, anything with more potency than a volks squad makes a mess of them.

Unless of course you upgrade with BAR's... But it's not feasible to upgrade EVERY squad you buy with BAR's.

[Latios418]

Unless of course you upgrade with BAR's... But it's not feasible to upgrade EVERY squad you buy with BAR's.

As an Armour Company player, I can say it's 100% feasible. With no tommy Rangers to fall back on for infantry rape, I've got 14 squads of riflemen all with BARs. I have tier two munitions advantage, so that still leaves me 1280 munitions while greatly increasing my anti-infantry damage output and basically giving me mobile .30 cal =/

[Bubz]

So... Why do you think americans will buy 1 single bazooka on their rifles?

[Malevolence]

Riflemen with fireup, MG42 nerf to the max.

[Latios418]

Hmm, I see your point about the MG42 and did not think about that. Even if you disabled it's use w/ nades purchased they would still pwn mg42s not in buildings.

Just give them the ability to build TT/Sandbags/BW then =/

[perfil02]

I think there are too many munitions, i like this more when there were unupgraded volks and grenadiers fighting against unupgraded riflemen, and you could only afford to give upgrades just to a few units.
Now as whermatach i've got all my grens with double LMG or Shrecks.
Maybe 10k manpower and 1k-1,3k munitions would be better.

[Demon767]

started talking bout nerfing rangers... than the idea popped up to give rifles fireup!?!?! how bout give every infantry fireup than. y not, its LOGICALLY possible. bad ideas lead to bad ideas. i dont see any problem in the balancing atm. Allies 2:1 ratio against Axis. while Allies say they have 10 rifleman in there companies that atleast 60 man with bars, sticky, grenades, not to mention ranger which are seen atleast twice in a company plus say 4 shermans and 4 M10 with 4 ATG. Why must you make it even harder for axis to fight you when we have at least 30-40 INF in our battalion, a few paks and a few tanks. Not to mention our tankbuster squads (or Grenz with panzsershreks) which leaves out 3 people to shoot from against 6 rifleman sometimes with Bars. or even worse Ranger which basically no axis INF can stop alone. Axis have to use there men and tanks alike wisely and if you think rifles need and upgrade your just throwing men away on the battlefield against an under strength side. And whats this with rifle have 1 zook? you want every single rifle to be a ranger squad, basically thats what your saying. It will be impossible to do anything as Axis espically PE relises on flanking with Huge amount of speed to do a hit and run, thats how PE was intended to be, Flanking with speed. Take out the maneuverability of PE and what do you have left? Tankbuster which cant take on rifles, Assault grenadiers which barely make it out alive vs 1 rifle squad sometimes, Panzer grens which die instantly to flamethrows, infantry halftracks which would be out of commision if hit by 2 zooks (eg rifleman squad) and anything else you can field will get squashed.

I cant see any problem with any balance issues atm. i feel its all balanced correctly and that its just the players feeling like they should be able to do more with there units rather than using them in a different manner to overcome challenges.

[CafeMilani]

many just dont see this: allies also beat axis in numbers..

[Two]

I wish I could just post you the 006 balance changelog

And why cant you? Just add a "Subject to change." line at the top if its not final yet :O We all want to know

[Mgallun74]

I think there are too many munitions, i like this more when there were unupgraded volks and grenadiers fighting against unupgraded riflemen, and you could only afford to give upgrades just to a few units.
Now as whermatach i've got all my grens with double LMG or Shrecks.
Maybe 10k manpower and 1k-1,3k munitions would be better.

meh, not with the current state of the Rifleman and Ranger basic Carbines and Garands... one of the biggest nerfs in the game imho.

[Smokaz]

Stop entertaining the retarded discussion of rifleman fireup

[Mgallun74]

yes, no fire up on rifleman thats dumb... hell, i rarely use it... only to get some guys out of dodge, but that means pulling them way back, because the exhaustion phase turns them into poop.

[NightRain]

Rangers are quite all arounders these days. When ever I watch replay I always see about 4-6 squads of them all with thompsons. The thing is that they can't be really stopped unless you have ostwind and or two MGs helping that ostwind. Then they will waste fire up to retreat and strike again when those MGs are moratered or howy shot. Arty and Rangers. Quite common sight these days.


Anyhow if you want to nerf Rangers just drop their in reserve number or in-supply number or make them expensive PP vise. That'll stop the complete spam or at least slow it down a little bit.