Nerf rangers, buff rifles?

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[#Freek]

How are rangers any better than Stormies?

Stormies can have Stg's, Shreks, nades, PERMA-cloak (assault?)
Rangers can have tommies, zooks, nades, fireup

They can both rape inf at close quarters, tanks with right circumstances.
They can both surmount MG's (stormies sneak by/nade/ignore, rangers run away/nade then die)
Arguably, I'd prefer cloak on my rangers, that's just soo much better than fireup.

Seriously, No nerfing rangers or their availability without nerfing stormies too.  Why?  B/c german elite inf consists of:
KCH (a bit UP imo), Stormies, Falshimagers (more? I can't recall)

Grenadiers- dual shreckers of tank Do0m, dual lmg's of inf r@p3
Volks- mp44's for rangers on the cheap, assault for support/blob Do0m

Allies:
Airborne (falls, but Anti-Tank mostly), Rangers (stormies w/ fire-up instead of PERMA-cloak)

Rifles can have BAR, nades, stickies.  Won't really kill stuff, just pick off a guy or two, before getting retreated/destroyed.

The question is not how we can limit allies use of their few elite infantry, but how we can make rifles more useful. (I recommend reducing rifle's cost & higher availability like in old EiR, though possibly as a doctrine ability.  Rifles used to cost something like 130mp w/ old infantry doctrine.)

No one likes to get 'their' unit nerfed (my old cally of Do0m, or my current rangers) so lets buff a different, underused unit instead.  That would indirectly nerf the 'OP' unit b/c players would have to choose between the newly buffed rifles or Rangers.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Stormies can have Stg's, Shreks, nades, PERMA-cloak (assault?)
Rangers can have tommies, zooks, nades, fireup

Four Thompsons for 140 (35 MU each) are much better than four MP44s for 190 (~50MU each), and two 'Zooks for 80 (40MU each) are much more efficient than two 'Schrecks for 300 (150MU each). Keep in mind that Storms can either be anti-infantry or anti-tank, while Rangers are almost always both.
Bundle nades>Pineapple nades, but then again Pineapple nades>Potato masher nades.
I'd say the differences between Fire-Up and Cloak are fair, though Cloak requires the Axis player to be much more strategically minded, while FU is basically a 'get out of trouble free' ability with a recharge timer.

They can both surmount MG's (stormies sneak by/nade/ignore, rangers run away/nade then die)

FU is more than enough to get out of the MGs arc of fire, so there's no way in which Rangers would die that Storms wouldn't.

Grenadiers- dual shreckers of tank Do0m, dual lmg's of inf r@p3

Dual 'Schrecks on Grens costs 250MU, and is very ineffective. It's a hard deterrent, at best.
One BAR upgrade>one LMG upgrade. But of course two LMGs are gonna own inf, they cost 150MU total, almost double that of the BARs.
Still, just taking base damage/accuracy into account two BARs out damage two LMGs (except at short range), and Suppression Fire near instantly pins the enemy, where as LMGs take some time to work (God help you if they have FU, HC, or Smoke).

Volks- mp44's for rangers on the cheap

Could you please clarify? I have no idea what you're saying here.
Even still, I'd hardly call Grens, let alone Volks, 'elite infantry.'

Rifles can have BAR, nades, stickies.  Won't really kill stuff, just pick off a guy or two, before getting retreated/destroyed.

A single Rifle squad can work wonders: BARs near insta-suppress, making infantry so much easier to deal with, Pineapple Nukes™ are great, and one well placed nade will kill all three members of a weapon crew, and one good Sticky (which only cost 27MU) can near guarantee the death of any enemy vehicle.

No one likes to get 'their' unit nerfed (my old cally of Do0m, or my current rangers) so lets buff a different, underused unit instead.

And here you're saying that Rangers shouldn't get nerfed because you don't want them to? Really?

[NCOIC]

Ok dangerous thing a noob player with a bit of history

Looking over the arguments here I think that straight leg rifle units do need some beefing up. Dunno how. Thats fer the game experts here to work out. Historically US rifle squads had a lot of fire power in simply the semi auto garands. 10-12 of those firing at once was a very powerful force. Axis had bolt action rifles in the main with the mp44 never being issued in any huge numbers. I am fuzzy on who had the most AT stuff other than late german troops having the very capable panzerfaust. Now how to plug those numbers or capabilities into CoH is something fer the devs but I feel that rifles need some buff love cuz they seem underpowered...(of course in my hands they are even worse   )

Carry on

[Mgallun74]

Ok dangerous thing a noob player with a bit of history

Looking over the arguments here I think that straight leg rifle units do need some beefing up. Dunno how. Thats fer the game experts here to work out. Historically US rifle squads had a lot of fire power in simply the semi auto garands. 10-12 of those firing at once was a very powerful force. Axis had bolt action rifles in the main with the mp44 never being issued in any huge numbers. I am fuzzy on who had the most AT stuff other than late german troops having the very capable panzerfaust. Now how to plug those numbers or capabilities into CoH is something fer the devs but I feel that rifles need some buff love cuz they seem underpowered...(of course in my hands they are even worse   )

Carry on

well said... i have raised this question before and been shoved aside... right now, as in game the Garand and the Carbine are UP... their rate of fire is silly slow.. but its nothing the people here can fix, its one of relics *balance* nerfs to a unit...  which is too bad, because i have shot the Garand and K98s before, and at any range the Garand got off alot more shots and very accurate.  I sad, that such a iconic weapon is totally nerfed junky in this game... but meh, what you gonna do.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Ok dangerous thing a noob player with a bit of history

Looking over the arguments here I think that straight leg rifle units do need some beefing up. Dunno how. Thats fer the game experts here to work out. Historically US rifle squads had a lot of fire power in simply the semi auto garands. 10-12 of those firing at once was a very powerful force. Axis had bolt action rifles in the main with the mp44 never being issued in any huge numbers. I am fuzzy on who had the most AT stuff other than late german troops having the very capable panzerfaust. Now how to plug those numbers or capabilities into CoH is something fer the devs but I feel that rifles need some buff love cuz they seem underpowered...(of course in my hands they are even worse   )

Carry on

Balance =/= reality.
It's much easier to make a balanced game, and have some realistic elements, than it is to make a realistic game, and completely balance it from there.

[Scyn]

To make a game realistic and balanced everyone would have to play the same faction. That's the Only way.

[spinn72]

Scyn we're only aiming to make the game as balanced as it can be without making the game basically have the same units. 

I must say over the past couple of months balance has improved a lot, so all we need to do is keep on tweaking things more.  Really all the devs need to do is get on together and discuss imbalances and change them immediately. 

[#Freek]

...
A single Rifle squad can work wonders: BARs near insta-suppress, making infantry so much easier to deal with, Pineapple Nukes™ are great, and one well placed nade will kill all three members of a weapon crew, and one good Sticky (which only cost 27MU) can near guarantee the death of any enemy vehicle.
...

The thing about weapon crews is that you can't approach MG's up front.  1 Axis mg will cause the annihilation of N rifle squads.  On the flip side, I see axis inf walk into my MG's and then walk right out, taking minimal damage, without getting suppressed.  Don't forget assault, which is auto-pwn any mg up front.

A ranger can't kill a single MG in a building, not without taking heavy casualties.  FU, throw nade, kill 1 or 2 guys if you're lucky.  Then, wait 10 seconds, throw next nade, hope the MG dies.  By then, the squad is at 3 or less men.  If you don't kill the MG, well, those rangers have no way out, as they're now suppressed and out of nades/health.

On the other hand, a storm squad can just walk away and cloak.  The cloak also gives them the option to just ignore the MG completely, and go for that nice juicy mortar/atg.  Toss bundle nade, then rape the rifle squad(s) 'guarding' it. Or, get behind that sherman/m10/vehicle.  Let loose your salvo and bring it down to like 30% health/dead.  Ofc, if they're caught, they can almost always retreat and keep their vet unless the player *really* screws up.

Now, why the hell do you think stickies only cost 27 MU?  I pay 80 for 2 uses, which is sometimes 1 b/c the squad takes too many casualties throwing the first one.  So, at best, the sticky is 40 MU.  Get your figures straight, before you pull them out of the air, at least.

You complain about the BAR's suppress, that only works once every 6 (or 10?) minutes, hardly the perma-suppress of your LMG's.  Btw, your LMG's are CHEAPER than my BAR's.  Thats just absurd.  What idiot made BAR's 80 MU anyway, an axis f@nb0y obviously.  

You complain about allied nades of Do0m, you have your own nades too:
bundle nades- one killed *8* of my guys at once
Assault- Brings/kills every guy in a 10m^2 radius to like 1 health, and 'stuns' them - THE PERFECT VET GRIEFING TOOL (IMO, assault nades should either kill OR stun, not both).
Incindiary- Great anti building stuff, forces the enemy out of cover. Kills them too.
Regular nades- Dunno why these are any different from my 'nuclear pineapples' (they cost 40 MU?)

And stickies can't guarantee the death of a vehicle that has a few grens around it, unlike your shreks, which can home in on my sherms and take out half it's health easily.  My zooks have to get onto your tanks' flanks to do any real damage.  The stickies need a vet 2 rifle to be all that useful.  With your repair bunkers, damaged engines aren't a real problem.  

AFAIK, the allies have had their calliopes, airborne (absurd availability), offmaps, and rangers (I have to pay 220 MU just to get SMG's and zooks, even if I don't want them). + innumerable other small things (eg, 80MU bars)

AFAIK, the axis have had KCH (which needs a buff, seriously) and PAKS (no more mobile cloaking of Do0m) nerfed.  Even those were slight.  nerfs.  

Also, I can only get like 1 croc before paying pp.  Why should I be forced to get sherms, which suck at AT (and the croc is better at AI) work?

If any nerfs need to be thrown around, it's the axis who needs them.  There is no reason they need their Uber Faction to have an easier time raping Allies.

As a quick fact, the vet leader boards
Wer - Top 3 are KT, Hummel, and STORMTROOPERS
PE - Top 3 are all Hummels & Jagd
Brits - Top 3 are Commandos (1k xp! scary), Tomy, Priest
US - 2 Pershings and 1 Ranger (30more xp than storms)

There are 8 rangers on leaderboards and 2 airborne 0 RIFLES.
There are 6 storms, 7 Falls, 2 assault grens, 2 tank hunters, 8 Grens.

Infantry on leader boards
Wer has 13 MIX
PE has 12 (mix? dunno if assault grens count as elite)
Amer has 10, elite only, on leader boards.
Brits have 13, mix, on leader boards.

It's apparent Amer infantry are vastly inferior to axis.  Not a single rifle on the leader boards, while there are plenty of grens 'regular' infantry.  

The next time some idiot nerfs an allied unit, without a reciprocating nerf for the axis.  I will Fre3k.  I will quit, and go find some game that doesn't have this interesting dichotomy of numbers vs. quality being turned into food for the quality b/c the axis just

whine.
whine.
whine.
  
In my 'stomies need balancing' thread, one of the devs/mods was *all over the place* 'we will not nerf stormies'.

Where is he now? Where is 'we will not nerf rangers, either'

[BoDyBaG2224TLS]

All of your enemy MG's can be beaten by 2 rifle squads and grenades. Have one get suppressed, approach with other, nade and then fire at it till it dies. Even better if there is a nearby building you can garrison, as they can't switch targets when firing at a building.

[#Freek]

Wow, a veritable essay...
For the
TL/DR-
'Best Case'
Boost rifles a bit (less MP, more availability IMO)
Leave rangers alone
'Decent Case'
Leave rangers alone
'Worst Case'
Nerf rangers into uselessness like airborne (4 availability? get real)
I quit

^I'm surprised I haven't heard anyone crying over commandos, can appear anywhere on the map, come with 'smg's and have that weird smoke/cloak thing.  Seriously, sometimes I wonder why I don't go brits X_X.

[#Freek]

All of your enemy MG's can be beaten by 2 rifle squads and grenades. Have one get suppressed, approach with other, nade and then fire at it till it dies. Even better if there is a nearby building you can garrison, as they can't switch targets when firing at a building.

That is certainly a valid tactic, although more often than not, the MG is either microd/lucky and suppresses the squad with the grenade.  Thus leading to the death of one squad and 1 more squad just sortof sitting there, looking for a purpose.

[Scyn]

To be honest.. I don't like reading long-winded posts about why something should or should not be changed. I don't like reading people bicker back and forth. There's a highly regarded thread which is being used for balance suggestions for allies and there's one for axis too. If you have a gripe.. leave it at the door before you post in either thread.. Be sure to read the opening post.

Allies - http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=9566.0

Axis - http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=9567.0

These are the two threads I'm going to take seriously when it comes to our joint discussion of balance and things on or off the chopping block.

[Illegal_Carrot]

The thing about weapon crews is that you can't approach MG's up front.  1 Axis mg will cause the annihilation of N rifle squads.  On the flip side, I see axis inf walk into my MG's and then walk right out, taking minimal damage, without getting suppressed.  Don't forget assault, which is auto-pwn any mg up front.

Attack the MG from two different angles - one gets suppressed while the other flanks and takes the MG out easy, even without nades.

A ranger can't kill a single MG in a building, not without taking heavy casualties.  FU, throw nade, kill 1 or 2 guys if you're lucky.  Then, wait 10 seconds, throw next nade, hope the MG dies.  By then, the squad is at 3 or less men.  If you don't kill the MG, well, those rangers have no way out, as they're now suppressed and out of nades/health.

Don't attack MGs head on with infantry? I would never expect Storms to win against a garrisoned MG, why would you expect a single squad of Rangers to?
I was talking about MGs deployed outside, which was implied when I mentioned the MGs arc of fire.

On the other hand, a storm squad can just walk away and cloak.  The cloak also gives them the option to just ignore the MG completely

As I said before, Rangers have the option of ignoring the MG aswell. Once you know there's an MG there, just get away and attack from a different area.

Or, get behind that sherman/m10/vehicle.  Let loose your salvo and bring it down to like 30% health/dead.  Ofc, if they're caught, they can almost always retreat and keep their vet unless the player *really* screws up.

Getting behind enemy lines to take out armor is a bad idea. Two Schrecks, at best, will do ~50% to an M10. But your Storms will then be revealed, and probably killed before they can even get off a second salvo.

Now, why the hell do you think stickies only cost 27 MU?  I pay 80 for 2 uses, which is sometimes 1 b/c the squad takes too many casualties throwing the first one.  So, at best, the sticky is 40 MU.  Get your figures straight, before you pull them out of the air, at least.

From the 'Latest Price List' thread: 'Sticky Bombs - 80 Mun (3 use)' (80/3=27)
And who cares if you lose a Rifle squad after only two Stickies? Those two Stickies=two damages/destroyed/immobilized engines. At best, that means two dead tanks, at worst, it at least throws a wrench into your enemies plans, and forces him to spend much time repairing those tanks.

You complain about the BAR's suppress, that only works once every 6 (or 10?) minutes, hardly the perma-suppress of your LMG's.  Btw, your LMG's are CHEAPER than my BAR's.  Thats just absurd.  What idiot made BAR's 80 MU anyway, an axis f@nb0y obviously.

Again, from the Price List thread: 'BAR - 80 Mun (Suppression Fire - 240 seconds)'
The recharge is only four minutes, not ten. If you have two BAR squads, that obviously means you can insta-suppress once every two minutes, which is more than enough.
Besides, each BAR is only 40MU, compared to the MLGs 75MU, despite the fact that the BAR out-damages the LMG.

bundle nades- one killed *8* of my guys at once

That is just one example of an extreme result, not a common occurrence. Besides, maybe you shouldn't blob multiple squads right on top of eachother.

Assault- Brings/kills every guy in a 10m^2 radius to like 1 health, and 'stuns' them - THE PERFECT VET GRIEFING TOOL (IMO, assault nades should either kill OR stun, not both).

Again, don't blob. Assault grenades can only stun one squad, unless there's another practically on top of the first. Squads using Assault are highly vulnerable while doing so, have a huge warning marker above their heads, and can easily be avoided.

Incindiary- Great anti building stuff, forces the enemy out of cover. Kills them too.

No Wehr unit had Incendiary grenades. Now you're not even on the topic of Wehr vs Ami infantry.

Regular nades- Dunno why these are any different from my 'nuclear pineapples' (they cost 40 MU?)

Ami nades are 35 MU for two, Wehr nades are 30 MU for two. The difference is that Ami nades do 50% more damage.

And stickies can't guarantee the death of a vehicle that has a few grens around it, unlike your shreks, which can home in on my sherms and take out half it's health easily.

Immobile tank=10x more likely to die. Besides, Schrecks have terrible accuracy against anything at long (or even medium) range, and their four-man platform (be it Storms or Grens) is easily killed.

With your repair bunkers, damaged engines aren't a real problem.

Seeing as the tank can hardly move (or not even move at all), getting it to said repair station can be near impossible. Even then, it still takes a long time to repair a tank back to 100% health, which you have to do in order to repair its engine.

whine.
whine.
whine.

You seem to be doing a lot of this. Calm down, get your facts straight, and we can get back to the discussion at hand.

These are the two threads I'm going to take seriously when it comes to our joint discussion of balance and things on or off the chopping block.

Those threads are for recommendations, not discussion, obviously, and we're just discussing the topic here.
BTW, is there any sort of deadline to post in that thread? I don't want to post my thoughts on the subject now, and I haven't done enough research/play testing to make a completely informed decision yet, but I don't want to wait until it's too late, of course.

[Tymathee]

rangers dont need a nerf, rifles dont need a buff. I find it funny that rangers are used more when they automatically get zooks, than when you had the choice not to have them lo

[Demon767]

Who charges a MG in a house without suspecting to take casualties? wheres your valid understanding there? Just because Stormies can do something and Rangers cant doesnt mean it needs to be buffed up, Rangers are totally different units used in different tatics. Just like Rangers can run with the mass Rifleman of 20 and eliminate all opposition. Can stormies do that? no, because Axis have small squads. 2:1 ratio.

[Unkn0wn]

I wish I could just post you the 006 balance changelog

And why cant you? Just add a "Subject to change." line at the top if its not final yet :O We all want to know

We've had some bad experiences with changelogs being posted before the actual changes were made .
Too much theorycrafting makes our heads explode.

[Mysthalin]

In response to nugnugx's post on riflemen being equal to grenadiers that was eaten by the server migration :

Short overlook over the guns :
Riflemen are armed with 5 M1 garands and 1 M1A1 Carbine.
Grenadiers have 3 K98_elites, 1 k98_leader.
the K98_elite is the only of all those weapons to feature a wind-down of 1.2s

Short range average table of stats for each weapon :


\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Garand    Carbine      K98_elite        K98_leader
Damage             10          7               15                 15
Cooldown           1.65       1.4             0.56               1.5
Accuracy           0.75       0.75            0.85              0.75
Aim time           0.075       0.075         0.075             0.075

Meaning that each rifleman will fire off one round every 1.73 seconds for 10 damage at 0.75 accuracy.
The sergeant/leader will fire off a round every 1.5 seconds for 7 damage at 0.75 accuracy.
Each grenadier will fire off a round every 1.8 seconds for 15 damage at 0.85 accuracy.
The grenadier leader will fire off a round every 1.6 seconds for 15 damage at 0.75 accuracy.

The first shot is not affected by cooldown, so the grenadiers will only start benefiting from this after a while of shooting. Meaning, that in 1.9 seconds there will have been fired :

10 Carbine bullets and 2 Carbine bullets, for a grand total of 114 damage at 0.75 accuracy.
6 K98_elite bullets and 2 K98_leader bullets for a grand total of 90 damage at 0.85 accuracy and 30 damage at 0.75 accuracy.


Medium range average table of stats for each weapon :

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Garand    Carbine      K98_elite        K98_leader
Damage             10          7               15                15
Cooldown            3        1.875           0.75               2
Accuracy           0.55      0.55           0.65             0.55
Aim time             0.3         0.3             0.3              0.3

Each garand will fire every 3.3 seconds, the carbine will fire every 2.2 seconds, the grens will fire every 2.2 seconds, the leader will fire every 2.3 seconds.

In 3.6 seconds :

10 garand rounds, 2 carbine rounds, totale of 114 damage at 0.55 accuracy.
6 K98_elite shots, 2 K98_leader rounds, totale of 90 damage at 0.65 accuracy and 30 damage at 0.55 accuracy.

Im 6.9 seconds, however :

15 garand shots, 4 carbine shots, totale of 178 damage at 0.55 accuracy.
12 K98_elite shots, 3 k98_leader shots, totale of 180 damage at 0.65 accuracy and 45 damage at 0.55 accuracy.

Long range average table of stats for each weapon :

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Garand    Carbine      K98_elite        K98_leader
Damage             10          7               15                15
Cooldown           4.5        2.8             0.94              2.5
Accuracy           0.35      0.25            0.45             0.35
Aim time             0.6        0.6             0.6              0.6

Garands will fire every 5.1 seconds, carbine every 3.4 seconds.
K98_elite will fire every 2.7 seconds, K98_leader will fire every 3.1 seconds.

In 6 seconds :
10 garand shots, 2 carbine shots, totale of 100 damage at 0.35 accuracy and 14 damage at 0.25 accuracy.
9 K98_elite shots and 2 K98_leader shots, totale of 135 damage at 0.45 accuracy and 30 damage at 0.35 accuracy.

So can you honestly claim the rifleman gun is "almost equal" and it is only 10 damage less than a K98? It's inferior at ALL ranges, but at close range it's inferiority is not as apparent.
Accuracy, cooldowns and aim times all play as much a factor as damage per shot.

I mean, what would you be more afraid of, a gun that has 10 percent accuracy and fires every 2 minutes, but does 5000 damage, or a gun that has 75 percent accuracy and fires every 8 seconds, but does 40 damage? I'd rather avoid the 40 damage one.

Grenadiers are way supperior to riflemen, there's a reason why in vCoH not only do they cost more than riflemen to field, but also are a T2 unit, unlike the riflemen which hit the field at T1.

EDIT : had not noticed the k98_elite also has a 1.2 second wind-down. Edited stats tables to make up for it. The K98 >>>>>> garand still.

[VariantThirteen]

Who charges a MG in a house without suspecting to take casualties? wheres your valid understanding there? Just because Stormies can do something and Rangers cant doesnt mean it needs to be buffed up, Rangers are totally different units used in different tatics. Just like Rangers can run with the mass Rifleman of 20 and eliminate all opposition. Can stormies do that? no, because Axis have small squads. 2:1 ratio.

No, no, no, no, no. A million times no.

Look, I'm an Axis player through and through, but almost every time you open your mouth to defend Axis I want to give myself a black eye.

Rangers are Infantry's counter to lightly garrisoned MGs. Mortars suck, snipers are in too short a supply to be dependable. Rangers are shock infantry for breaking the stalemates that Wehr are so good at creating with MG42s, if they are unable to do this (say because of a nerf to FU) it causes serious problems and creates undesirable gameplay effects, like a massive overabundance of Arty.

Secondly, in vCoH you can blob rifles with Rangers and walk through everything because these units appear well before their hardcounters, skirted tanks, Ostwinds and KCHs, as well as because frontlines tend to be poorly defined in vCoH, whereas in EiR it is much harder to open an easy flank where your blobbed close infantry can close to a respectable distance before raping. Doublestacked MGs, flame weapons and grenades are relatively common, as are "hard" Ranger counters like skirted tanks.

They are completely different units to Stormies, but you have mischaracterised them. Rangers function more like skirmish infantry at the moment, rather than the heavy infantry they used to be, this is mostly due to the FU change, which was absolutely needed in retail, but I'm not so sure about it in EiR.

[gamesguy2]

All of your enemy MG's can be beaten by 2 rifle squads and grenades. Have one get suppressed, approach with other, nade and then fire at it till it dies. Even better if there is a nearby building you can garrison, as they can't switch targets when firing at a building.

That works in vCoH, this does NOT work in EIR.

In vCoH MG42 cost 260 manpower, rifles cost 270.

In EIR MG42 costs 3 pop, rifles cost 5 pop.

How the fuck do you bait and flank an MG when he can have two MGs and a squad of grenadiers for your 2 rifles?  Its impossible.  This, btw is not true for grenadiers.  I've seen and have walked grenadiers right infront of a 30 cal, sit in light cover, pop med kit and just kill the MG from the front.

I've been talking about this for ages.  Reduce the cost of MGs, increase the availability, but for god's sake make them 4 or even 5 pop.

[BigDick]

All of your enemy MG's can be beaten by 2 rifle squads and grenades. Have one get suppressed, approach with other, nade and then fire at it till it dies. Even better if there is a nearby building you can garrison, as they can't switch targets when firing at a building.

That works in vCoH, this does NOT work in EIR.

In vCoH MG42 cost 260 manpower, rifles cost 270.

In EIR MG42 costs 3 pop, rifles cost 5 pop.

How the fuck do you bait and flank an MG when he can have two MGs and a squad of grenadiers for your 2 rifles?  Its impossible.  This, btw is not true for grenadiers.  I've seen and have walked grenadiers right infront of a 30 cal, sit in light cover, pop med kit and just kill the MG from the front.

I've been talking about this for ages.  Reduce the cost of MGs, increase the availability, but for god's sake make them 4 or even 5 pop.

as you said in vCOH a mg42 is 260MP and a rifle 270MP

in EiR a mg42 is 270MP and a rifle 200MP
in EiR you can have 4 mg42 and 14 Rifles