Randomness of R Mode

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[Lai]

Once you go beyond a certain skill level you shouldn't lose defending games, unless you screw up pretty big, no matter who your opponents are. Cheesing don't work well in higher level games. The starts are tailored so that the cheeser will take enough damage or even lose. If not, a hard counter will come in on the 2nd call-in. Cheese starts are costly.

I think longer call-in timers for defenders is the way to go. Say they start with a 2-3 platoon disadvantage.

[brn4meplz]

Attackers get altered population gain so even if they don;t manage to wtfrape they can still keep pace into the later game stages

[CafeMilani]

no way! what a bad idea.
attacking is easier to defend IMO because u can push hard on one side and break through enemy lines before they can even regroup-> pwned.

[Draken]

Atacking is retarded you got no benefits from atacking, there should be +5 more pop from start or faster pop gain for first 20 minutes or something.

[CafeMilani]

no, definately not imo

[Draken]

no, definately not imo

why?

try to atack on rtc (atleast you have pop on this map) not like on idh where you got 0.2 to 0.7 from start. And anyway players above mid skill use team colors so they fucking know that they are triple or doubled, so they shout for help, so that "overhleming" enemy won't help you. Atacking is no fun.

[Smokaz]

At least one correct (though quite obvious) observation has been made here so far: That if a "weak" player starts for your team with a poor core/starting units and gets destroyed, you might as well just surrender on certain maps.

There's no logical reason for why you should still win the game with equal teams when they have the advantage of holding middle and already have a numbers advantage / possible captured weapons from wiping out the first player's starting units.

If you are a weak or average player, you should definitely bring a dangerous core in R mode. For wehr, this means having a P4, some double shreks and a goliath + assault nades etc in other words an expensive core in terms of manpower and munitions. Even if you are a good player, a weak starting unit composition can fuck you up if you don't stay on top of your game.

To make cheap starts work, it needs to excessive and disheartening to counterattack. I do 2 x MG42, 2x Pak, 2x lmg/shrek Gren starts in R mode with wehr sometimes. I avoid being raped by more expensive starts by simply being the attacker; the grens and the mgs move in and supress the infantry if they have any to force a response.I don't give the american player time to plan out his flanks by coming to him instead of coming to me. A cheap start needs to be aggressive.

Usually the most dangerous starts from the other player is a simple and brutal spamstart where he exhausts your counters by sheer numbers or the ridicolous amount of strong units in his first 25 pop.
Examples could be two fully upgraded rangers + a sherman with howitzer drop, 5 halftracks 3 quads etc or a 4 riflesquad start with at gun.

There's nothing like the dissapointment of seeing someone you dont know the average performance of having their core destroyed without inflicting losses on the other guy in R mode. It's just as hopeless a feeling as attacking on RTC. R mode is not flawed on its own, but the stakes are high in the first engagement.

[pqumsieh]

It seems that in general people do not mind the randomness of R mode. However, it does seem there may be some ways to better balance attack/defend. Currently, a popular strategy used by many wehr players is an 88 covering one side forcing the attacker to avoid it. Therefore, there is no real surprise. We all know that a properly supported 88 is very difficult to overcome. Not impossible, but difficult. For new players, I'd say its impossible. Even if a new player did overcome an 88 defense, they would do so at a great cost.

Perhaps a new thread is in order, we could discuss possible balance tweaks to attack/defend mode. As for R mode, perhaps that is best done separately.

[brn4meplz]

Personally i usually find Attacking easie but thats withDoctrines and stuff. My SE company is hard to attack with but thats PE and the way my company is built. My AB company i prefer attacking over defending, but whatever. I was pretty sure i remember reading a post about the benefits attackers get when i first started playing EiR so i'll look into that.

[Smokaz]

The thing is, R+ cores and attacking cores neccessarily have to look very different on certain maps.