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[Groundfire]

Defending exploitive actions and company builds by saying it's the opposing players fault for letting you do it is like saying:

"A husband beats his wife because the wife lets the husband beat her; it's her fault, if she only took self defense classes and stood up for herself, the husband would cease beating her and they would have a loving relationship."

Fucking backwards logic ftw.

[PonySlaystation]

But that's not what the WC was for. The purpose of the WC was to

1: Limit overpowered upgrades/units
2: Limit underpowered upgrades/units while also reducing their cost

But instead it just ended up disabling every upgrade because the Devs hate balance or something.

New players having a hard time in EIR has nothing to do with balance or the WC. EIR is simply a hardcore mod that appeals to COH top rankers. The best thing for a new player is to play with other new players and the only thing that keeps this from happening is smurfing, which is an entirely different matter and should not affect balance. Smurfing can be fixed with the one player one profile policy.

[Hicks58]

And IP checks.

People on a router would have to inform the people running the show of course, wouldn't want any accidents lol.

[Unkn0wn]

If we dont have appropriate skill barriers, then the company composition needs to be balanced enough to where free buffs become a zero sum transaction to make a fair playing field

This would be good logic, except that with a WC it only applies to "free buffs affecting upgrades", i.e nothing is done about those doctrine buffs that affect an unupgraded unit. If you'd really want something like this in place, all doctrine buffs should affect a unit or upgrade's price. That'd be the simplest way, by far.

[Groundfire]

But that's not what the WC was for. The purpose of the WC was to

1: Limit overpowered upgrades/units
2: Limit underpowered upgrades/units while also reducing their cost

But instead it just ended up disabling every upgrade because the Devs hate balance or something.

New players having a hard time in EIR has nothing to do with balance or the WC. EIR is simply a hardcore mod that appeals to COH top rankers. The best thing for a new player is to play with other new players and the only thing that keeps this from happening is smurfing, which is an entirely different matter and should not affect balance. Smurfing can be fixed with the one player one profile policy.

If you do not see how and why the two issues are related then you have no place to speak in this discussion.

This mod does not have a free market premise, precisely by the reason that in order to play this mod, it is mandatory that I must interact with players that are not my own skill level.

If I dont then one party dodges or stacks to the inevitibility that the launcher is vacated and the mod dies cause no one can get a fair game. This cycle repeats itself every few months and the devs need to do a patch to inject life into the mod. New content renews activity because the premise of the player interaction is flawed and broken.

The very notion that I have to play with or against new players in order to play the mod gives me a distinct advantage due to my experience.

But this is the framework we have to develop mod in, then there must be a framework in place to create a level playing field. People cant just up and go play someone else or wait it out because we have quite the extensive evidence that the mod would die if this were the case.

This would be good logic, except that with a WC it only applies to "free buffs affecting upgrades", i.e nothing is done about those doctrine buffs that affect an unupgraded unit. If you'd really want something like this in place, all doctrine buffs should affect a unit or upgrade's price. That'd be the simplest way, by far.

The WC is just one such part of what should be a multitude of mechanics to make this happen. Its one piece of the pie, which we cant seem to get a consensus to implement cause everyone has their own damn way of doing shit and the very notion of stepping aside to relinquish power or to compromise is an inability that this community cannot grasp.

[PonySlaystation]

You don't have to play against new players and it's not difficult to find a fair game.

Are you suggesting that we should give new players more handicap so that they can win against better players? Because that is a terrible idea. It defies all the rules of competitive and fun gaming.

[Unkn0wn]

The WC is just one such part of what should be a multitude of mechanics to make this happen. Its one piece of the pie, which we cant seem to get a consensus to implement cause everyone has their own damn way of doing shit and the very notion of stepping aside to relinquish power or to compromise is an inability that this community cannot grasp.

Well like I said, you could just have doctrine abilities affect unit pricing.

You don't have to play against new players and it's not difficult to find a fair game.

Are you suggesting that we should give new players more handicap so that they can win against better players? Because that is a terrible idea. It defies all the rules of competitive and fun gaming.

To be fair, if a new player comes into the mod and simply doesn't stand a chance versus someone simply because he is a higher level (and thus has a lot more vet and doctrine abilities) rather than because he is more skilled, then there is a serious issue. THAT would actually be deying the rules of competetive and fun gaming, sine competetive gaming is only possible when skill is the only factor in play between competing players and it certainly isn't fun losing games because you are less developed than the other player.

Most MMO games solve this by seperating 'lower developed' accounts from 'higher development' ones, something that is not possible in EIR due to the small playerbase. As a result we DO need to find some way to mitigate the discrepency and at least bring that discrepency to an 'acceptable' level. (Which arguably currently isn't the case since you could effectively be a lvl 5 company facing off vs a level 9) With the warmap, when the grind is largely removed, that doctrine tier discrepency will largely be mitigated.

[BigDick]

blob of falls...Ooo look,105 shell  
problem solved...
OR
few bars...troll them while they all get suppressed and toss few nades to finish the job...

why r u making it so complicated

m10 drives by - trollolol

Defending exploitive actions and company builds by saying it's the opposing players fault for letting you do it is like saying:

"A husband beats his wife because the wife lets the husband beat her; it's her fault, if she only took self defense classes and stood up for herself, the husband would cease beating her and they would have a loving relationship."

don't know whats "exploitive action and company build" on some fg42 falls lolz

when i played top T4 luft i don't even got any fg42 just some fausts and nades

this thread is getting ridiculess

your beloved weapons cache didn't took care on my 24scoutcar company or my 5 sniper 8 M10 company or my 7 sniper company or some other really strange stuff  

Well like I said, you could just have doctrine abilities affect unit pricing.

well you could just remove the doctrines then cos beside bottem unit unlocks they make no sense anymore

furthermore you need to make units more expensive when they get veterancy cos they are better 

[Smokaz]

Blobbing is done because you know you can get away with it. The allies in this game had no legitimate chance at winning and thus their inexperience was exploited.

I think this is the initial frenzy starter right?

Guess what, you can't change this. More experience can't be funneled into equal chances vs lower experience.

Aloha and bigdick and for instance have stated several times that they do not like games where its stacked on both sides, you won't see them willingly arrange these type of games. We have a lot of other players as well: players who don't have the initiative to arrange a capable team for themselves, much less help the opposing team arrange it.
I can't see how this translates to anything else than no interest in competition at all. The only incentive for competition right now is your own enjoyment.

That game was the embodiment of exactly what the WC tried to stamp out.

Congratulations, you guys brought it back. Enjoy your circle jerk of fall blobs.

Enjoy a stacked team beating on some noobs or rather a random team. Surprise yourself with who wins.

[BigDick]

Tank Edit: No Unrelated pics please

[Computer991]

lol why is everyone getting so butthurt and skaffa go sit on a cock, this wouldn't be the first time noobs got stomped in eirr anyways... I wasn't playing the entire game I just built bushes most the game that's why I had so many falls on..to built more bushes at a faster rate...

And the purposefulness of this company is to test how easy falls are... before i go about spouting falls are OP.

[skaffa]

lol noob, no more def arty to abuse ?

[Computer991]

lol noob, no more def arty to abuse ?

I've moved onto abusing your mother

[skaffa]

lol, so you agree it was abuse, nooooob

[Computer991]

lol, so you agree it was abuse, nooooob

.75 seconds is hardly a nerf tbh, I started playing luft since before the nerf  defensive is just too easy mode anyways.

[MorkaandBorka]

I think this is the initial frenzy starter right?

Guess what, you can't change this. More experience can't be funneled into equal chances vs lower experience.

Aloha and bigdick and for instance have stated several times that they do not like games where its stacked on both sides, you won't see them willingly arrange these type of games. We have a lot of other players as well: players who don't have the initiative to arrange a capable team for themselves, much less help the opposing team arrange it.
I can't see how this translates to anything else than no interest in competition at all. The only incentive for competition right now is your own enjoyment.

Enjoy a stacked team beating on some noobs or rather a random team. Surprise yourself with who wins.

I love what your saying here Smokaz.   As far as I know most of the time its me and skaffa hunting down people to arrange a stackbattle because we would rather have a competative match than some bullshit noobstomp any time. 

I'm sure skaffa would agree.   

lol why is everyone getting so butthurt and skaffa go sit on a cock, this wouldn't be the first time noobs got stomped in eirr anyways... I wasn't playing the entire game I just built bushes most the game that's why I had so many falls on..to built more bushes at a faster rate...

And the purposefulness of this company is to test how easy falls are... before i go about spouting falls are OP.

Also, falls are fucking op.  Probably the most overbuffed and awesome unit in this mod.  Its one of the few if only unit that actually makes a new player/mediocre kinda good.  They output so much damage, can sprint, can cloak, can get fausts, can get nades, can get a sort of suppression fire and can drop anywhere. 

Its pretty insane...I've always hated lufftwaffe because it always seemed like such a bullshit way to go.

[tank130]

Yup... Falls are OP

[PonySlaystation]

To be fair, if a new player comes into the mod and simply doesn't stand a chance versus someone simply because he is a higher level (and thus has a lot more vet and doctrine abilities) rather than because he is more skilled, then there is a serious issue.

It only takes a few games to level up a company. Which is how progression should work, enough to make it fun and not too much so that it takes forever to get there.

[MorkaandBorka]

It only takes a few games to level up a company. Which is how progression should work, enough to make it fun and not too much so that it takes forever to get there.

I dont think alot of new players understand the mod when they 1st start...to say the least about "progression" pony...

[Unkn0wn]

Falls are fine, it's the luftwaffe doctrine that is retarded. Big difference.