Why do allies suck?

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[Two]

As im sure everyone who comes to the forums know, all the good players play axis and rarely play allies or not at all for some players. This leads to every game being stacked as the few who do play allies get stuck with newbies who play them cos they won the war and therefore are pro.

So question is why dont you play/dont want to allies? Lets see the main reasons.



Reason i prefer axis is due to them having more unit variety. Axis can get 3 infantry units that can be multipurpose (volks, grens, kch) while allies get 1 (rifles). Axis also have the best/fuller doctrines currently.

So whats your reason?

[Mgallun74]

I think it is the variety of units, Axis has so many units to create a battalion with here in EIRR..  also the Aura of playing with such famed items like the Tiger and Panther, 88 Flak, MP44s, Panzerschreks, all these weapons were feared and well deserved so. 

With the way the game is designed, it is easier to win with axis as well as the allied players dont get the realistic advantages they did in the real war.. which is numbers on the field at a time. 

but thats just my opinnion...

[brn4meplz]

Most of the time a good allied player against a good axis player is pretty balanced. The issue is that a new allied player against a new axis player is not. the MG42 has greater range and suppression meaning you can't make mistakes. The 81mm Axis mortar has more range then the Allied counterpart, meaning you can't make mistakes.

Axis have access to heavy tanks which are capable of easily defeating non micro'd allied tanks.

It's not cloak, or unit diversity. It's simply that new players have an easier time on Axis and people have a tendency to stick with what they know. if you gave the Allies exact replica's of the Axis support weapons i think you'd see it kind of works itself out(but don't it'd be weird...)

[CafeMilani]

i think "pros" dont play axis caus they are better. it just needs some skill, some luck (like in vcoh...) and the combination of units.
i mean look at killers ami stats: like 24:3! hes never stacking, ever. always plays hard games. hes a pro.

[salan]

such love.

[CafeMilani]

im serious  :|

[Osprey]

Allies only suck since the doctrines came in a couple of days ago. I had a 5 game win streak and won a total of 7 games out of about 10, now I'm on my 9/10th loss in a row, and keep losing all my AT to precision arty from players with about 2PPs to spend, where I haven't even got working field repairs yet.

I'm just a bit tired of losing to people with a million vet 3 stormies, mortars and nebels to tell the truth. It's not fun to lose so often, and quite frankly I think I'm burnt out for enjoyment at the moment. I know I'm constantly preaching the "noob bashing will not teach you how to win" line of thinking and try to play against experienced players, but I'm gradually beginning to think that actually playing against good people makes the game less and less enjoyable the more often you're made to suffer.

It's basically come down to if the enemy team has a player above rank 3, I probably won't play, if I get a teamate less than rank 3, I'll probably not play. I know that's not very sporting but right now all I want to do is go stomp some new guy's company into the ground, at least he won't have precision arty and vet 3 stormies coming out of his ears, and who knows I might actually enjoy the game for once, rather than keep plugging away because I need to grind PP to help me take on the good players.

[spinn72]

In all fairness Axis is always more fun to play in vCoH, so maybe that trends on from here when people come and play EIR, and say "oh i love whermact they have King Tigers and everything" and then they don't make an allies account.

British are probably the most fun team to play for me, panzer elite aren't too good since most of the units are very one sides and single purpose.

The problem i think with allies lies in the British, especially in vCoH where they are so limited the only thing different in your build strategy is whether you choose to get Churchills or Commandos.  It really sucks doing the same thing again and again, whether as with Whermact you can literally stop at almost any tier (even piospam at tier 1) and be decent, though i personally wouldn't stop at tier 3.

Also the fact that Whermact has everything Americans have, but better make axis a more favourable team.

PS. the fact of having a cloaked stormtrooper army also is a kick ass idea for most of us and that really sucks for brits which have 2 recon squads which is all they can use to detect.

[Ununoctium]

I dunno, I would play allied but armour doc is so small and my soldiers had a love affair with the onboard mechanics. (they're girls)

[Blitzen]

Agreed with most diff idea.  Allies is just less fun in my opinion.  A lot less units to play with.  Axis have a ton of units, allies have, ATG, rifles, sherman and Rangers/Airborne....
I know they have more units, but thats all the unique stuff they get.  Both teams have mgs and mortars and snipers.   I personally just find it boring artying the guy to death, and every now and then firing up to kill some stuff then running away.

[AmPM]

Currently it has to do with the balance of units.

Basically, there is nothing the Allied side can do better than the Axis in the current game.

Then again, there is nothing any Axis doctrine does better than Blitz really either.

Basically, offmaps being in only select doctrines, combined with incomplete doctrines on many of them, and the lack of artillery thats non-doctrinal for allies and brits screws the allies at this point in the war.

25lb back to all Brits again, since all support weapons are instaraped by Precision and so on. Then make the Artillery for the Ami's more available earlier.

Oh yea, buff the Churchill!
Also, the PAK really does need to reveal itself after the first shot if we are expected to play without any form of real artillery against the best soldiers, tanks, support and artillery in the game.

Right now, stealth units are just spotting for Precisions and once your support is gone its over. The only weapon team that can dodge it is an ATG moving in the open either forward or backward.

[Malevolence]

Also, the PAK really does need to reveal itself after the first shot if we are expected to play without any form of real artillery against the best soldiers, tanks, support and artillery in the game.

This.

[RaptorCommander]

In all fairness Axis is always more fun to play in vCoH, so maybe that trends on from here when people come and play EIR, and say "oh i love whermact they have King Tigers and everything" and then they don't make an allies account.

British are probably the most fun team to play for me, panzer elite aren't too good since most of the units are very one sides and single purpose.

The problem i think with allies lies in the British, especially in vCoH where they are so limited the only thing different in your build strategy is whether you choose to get Churchills or Commandos.  It really sucks doing the same thing again and again, whether as with Whermact you can literally stop at almost any tier (even piospam at tier 1) and be decent, though i personally wouldn't stop at tier 3.

Also the fact that Whermact has everything Americans have, but better make axis a more favourable team.

PS. the fact of having a cloaked stormtrooper army also is a kick ass idea for most of us and that really sucks for brits which have 2 recon squads which is all they can use to detect.

I have never played as allies in EIR and that includes pre EIRR days when I played a few games. Because axis in vCoh is more fun to play (more varity of units) and was/is harder to win with 1v1 auto on vCoh (Which I play a lot). I like to play the underdog.

Also when ever I try to create an account as allies it does not work.....

[RikiRude]

The shouldn't be allies suck, it should be "How can we make allies more enjoyable to play?"

Which is a much harder question to answer. Also in reality it's why does US suck, because we aren't discussing the CW.

Besides lack of variety it really is a turn off when all your weapons are pretty much worse then axis. How many times have you had a .30 set up and an MG42 sets up just outside its range and kill it? That simply doesn't make any sense. Another thing is AP rounds need to be cheaper for .30s. It's the only thing that gives your .30 an advantage and it's pretty expensive considering you need to buy it for every .30 on the CHANCE that it'll get used. Plus if it gets decrewed you lose those AP rounds for good.

Mortar, what can be said that hasn't been said in countless other threads before?

ATG, same thing here, overall pak is better, 57s rof is much slower which just plain sucks. And another thing that needs its AP rounds to make it as useful as its counterpart and AP rounds are too expensive, especially since it has less uses now and will be lost when it's decrewed which of course axis don't have to worry about when they recrew stuff.

Axis sniper you could say is better as well, but I think that is a personal choice, I like it's higher rate of fire, makes up for it's less accuracy, which I never even notice half the time.

Armor, you have to spend twice as much micro with your shermans then an axis player has to spend with their skirted P4s and their panthers, stugs of course need micro, but who uses those when you can get so many P4s?


In short, when axis recrews it's stuff, it's just as good as it was before, this isn't the same with US.


And back to how we can improve the US, who knows? If we knew what to do, it'd probably be implemented already.

[31stPzGren]

Its really easy to make allies more enjoyable than axis. The question which we have to ask is;

Are we going to deviate from vCoH gameplay? Are we going to create new units?

If not, I supposed allies will always be more boring than axis by nature of the design... thanks to Relic.

[Malevolence]

was/is harder to win with 1v1 auto on vCoh (Which I play a lot). I like to play the underdog.

This was actually an elitist attitude that overshadowed the actual status of the game as spread by gamereplays.org and its "pro" inhabitants. Wehrmacht was always just as good as any other faction since 2.3 at least, and PE was always OP since they came out until the most recent patch. I can't argue against the "cool" factor, though.


I think a big thing to make allies more attractive would be to more demonstrably and visibly show their strategic advantage once war map is implemented. A method of offmap usage was discussed recently that involved a more strategic use than a tactical "kill a unit/area" use, and I'm all for that. More, but less dangerous, artillery would give Americans a big flavor change from their past incarnations and make them more interesting - nothing beats the joys of rolling in your army behind an enormous creeping barrage that craters half the map.

[gamesguy2]

Practically every American unit is a shitty version of the wehr counterpart.

This is why three times as many Americans quit compared to all the other factions.

[AmPM]

I hate to say it, but more upgrades for Airborne and Rangers would help. Armor has quite a few units already even if they are all on the same base chassis.

BAR using AB? Flamethrower Rangers? I dunno, could be fun.

Perhaps just making them actually do some things better than the Wehr or PE would help.

[Blitzen]

could try doing what was done for the PE, take inf with upgrades and make them into different types.  Make rangers with no AT, and rangers with a lot of AT.  Make recon rifles that are really fast or something.   I'm no genius, but I'm sure they guy here could come up with a million more ideas.  Giving americans more units with different abilities would make them more attractive.

[RaptorCommander]

by nature of the design... thanks to Relic.

Ah relic the sorce of all our joy and pain

Are we going to deviate from vCoH gameplay? Are we going to create new units?

That is the question

But I agree with many others here varity in units is key to more enjoyable allie sides.

For the CW we could have tommies and then empire troops, e.g. canadian indian, nepalies, african (sadly no aussies). Where the tommies can be the base units and the empire troops can be the better ones. Similiar to but not idetical to the way volks and grens work with wher.

was/is harder to win with 1v1 auto on vCoh (Which I play a lot). I like to play the underdog.

This was actually an elitist attitude that overshadowed the actual status of the game as spread by gamereplays.org and its "pro" inhabitants. Wehrmacht was always just as good as any other faction since 2.3 at least, and PE was always OP since they came out until the most recent patch.

Yes PE are OP in vCoh but are Wehr really better then america in 1v1?
you can always get back from the brink of defeat as america i found but as Whermacht you can't afford to make one mistake.