I forgot about the damage mod when I wrote that, so I will concede that point. However, they still do 108 damage because of their huge damage mod, and often get rear armor hits due to their firing angle.
The damage mod is not extended to all targets and they need rear armor hits because they can't penetrate the front.
Ideally, yes, a Puma should beat PIATs all the time. But when you take certain factors into account, such as map terrain and pathing issues, and especially things like the PIAT's trajectory (over/through things) and PIAT Ambush, things lean back in favor of the PIAT.
I've raped the standard Brit starting call in of 2x brens, 2x piats, and LT with two ACs many, many times.
If you can't dodge piats, then its your own fault. Yes sometimes terrain doesn't allow it. So don't freaking engage him there. Whats he gonna do? Sit there in a giant blob and never move or cap territory?
I never said Skirts weren't a detriment to RRs, just that RRs were likely to pen anyways (which they are). I also that that despite their low damage, they easily out-DPS Schrecks due to their high accuracy (which is also true). In addition, the only reason RRs have the same front/rear penetration is because they pen 100% of the time, with the exception of Skirts and the tanks you listed.
They do not always out-dps shreks. Against anything with skirts they do much less damage.
If an M8 keeps moving at max range, it can beat a Schreck squad easy.
No it can't. My dual shrek grens used to eat M8s for breakfast, not anymore obviously.
Phase-through bug really does suck, but it's a Relic bug so there's nothing that can be done.
Really, though, with the exception of one unit, the Puma, RRs are more accurate.
Its more than one vehicle, and the puma and the AC are both ubiquitous in axis companies. Thats like if shreks phased through M8s, the whining would be epic.
RRs are more accurate against tanks yes, but they also do half the damage and are heavilly affected by skirts.
I already admitted that is was the Zooks main drawback. It is, however, made up for by the fact that Zooks are 1/3 the price of Schrecks, and get huge damage (and even accuracy) bonus against Axis tanks.
Their damage bonus does not make up for their shitty accuracy and penetration. Unless your opponent is retarded and points his ass to you at all times.
Hardly.
Here's a comparison of Zooks and Schreks
Accuracy at L/M/S
.35/.6/1 <-Zook
.35/.75/1 <-Schreck
A 15% difference at (and only at) Mid range is hardly 'significant.' Factor in the Zooks accuracy modifiers against certain Axis tanks, and the difference becomes even smaller.
Now you are purposely being obtuse. Have you checked RR accuracy lately? Its exactly the same as the zook. RRs hit so often because it has low scatter. The shrek has much lower scatter compared to the bazooka.
I can't believe you can claim that RRs are hugely accurate but claim that zooks are almost as accurate as shreks in the same post. RRs are accurate through the
same exactly mechanic that makes bazookas inaccurate.
The only doctrine that does not have hand-held AT is Armor, which can either use hand-held AT from a Reinforcement package, or use their superior armor for AT capabilities (which their doctrine upgrades lets them do easily).
How does this change the fact that shreks are more versatile? If you want bazookas you are forced to buy it on rangers. If you want RR you have to buy airborne. Being airborne doesnt unlock RRs on rifles. And even the bazooka for rifles doctrine ability in infantry isn't particularly good. Because a single zook rifle is literally the most pop inefficient AT in the game. You could beat that with an unupgraded halftrack.
Of course, the Schrecks huge price means that it is seen less often that other forms of AT. It seems that most people take six Schrecks in their battalion, yet it is not uncommon to see 10-12 RRs/Zooks/PIATs in each Allied battalion. I'd have to say the Schreck isn't more abundant than other AT; just the opposite.
6 shreks is about 750 munitions. 10 RR is 800 munitions, 10 zooks is 1100 munitions, and 10 piats is 500 munitions.
Shreks hit harder and is more versatile than all those listed above. I'd rather have shreks with the possible exception of the RRs.
But RRs lock you into one doctrine, so I'd rather have shreks.
Grens have more HP per man, but PIATs have Soldier armor, which makes them just as tough to almost all weapons.
Bullshit. Soldier armor is worthless against 90% of weapons in EIR. The only weapons soldier armor is heavilly modified against are regular, unupgraded rifles, and the BAR. Everything else either ignore soldier armor or have a very small reduction against soldier armor. Some weapons are more effective against soldier armor than regular infantry armor.
In no way is 60 hp soldier armor sappers remotely as durable as 80hp grens.
PIATs can fire over objects, which means they can fire at the enemy without even being engaged. On top of that, Allies in general have better AI capabilities with their vehicles than Axis, so engaging with Grens is a lot more dangerous than engaging with Sappers.
Piats pay for being able to fire over objects with being completely unable to hit a kiting vehicle.
Allies in general do NOT have better AI capabilities with their vehicles. P4s are just as good as shermans vs infantry. I'd take pumas and ACs over stuarts, quads, and M8s any day. Ostwind/wirblewind is better than the croc.
For a long time I had the highest vetted unit in the game(now 2nd most vetted), and guess what they were? Dual shrek grenadiers. Guess what the currently most vetted unit in the game is? Tankbusters.
How many airborne or piats or commando piats do you see on the leaderboard? The only reason rangers are on there is due to their thompsons, not their bazookas.
