We'll Be Back (tank repairs)

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[Mysthalin]

Exactly, it's too small to constitute a T2 brn . I'm not saying it doesn't help, but 12 percent more range is way more powerful, for instance.

[Ununoctium]

ok.
so increase all the T2 buffs by 5%
that way 1/20 hits wil work.

I would love a T3 that gave also 100% more armour and health to the m10 and/or the m18 (with increased price) making it sort of a main battle tank.
4 man knights cross, panther = m18?

[brn4meplz]

Armour company with an Elite infantry would be sexy Some sort of mechanized theme would rock. and it would keep them int eh American theme of Elite infantry or lose! lol ok well maybe not lose but certainly not earn much flashy vet

And Uno there is currently a Tier 3 that gives them 25% more health(M10 from 400hp to 500hp) but it doesn't make it survive any more shots then normal unless it's a Schrek or a bad P4 roll

[Killer344]

I find it broken with the armor doctrine when you stack it with veterancy + OBM + all the other buffs from the armor doctrine, t4s + vets pretty much fixes the stupidity of most players tbh.

ok sure

You need an entire doctrine to make allied Armour viable?
Or are you saying that the only reason allied Armour should win is if the don't have elite inf?

learn2read.

I find it broken with the armor doctrine when you stack it with veterancy + OBM + all the other buffs from the armor doctrine, t4s + vets pretty much fixes the stupidity of most players tbh.

I find it broken that axis tank vet stacks with skirts, heat rounds, improved barrels + german steel. A vet 3 german steel skirted P4 can take more shots than a tiger, do you not find that broken?

The p4 won't be able to get away like the sherman + overdrive + repair while moving, like never hahah, 57s + AP will still own it.

[Bubz]

Nope, ap rounds will miss. 

[Ununoctium]

Nope, ap rounds will miss. 

assuming your stupid enough to buy them.

[Killer344]

yeah... AP rounds suck.... sure.

[Mysthalin]

I find it broken that axis tank vet stacks with skirts, heat rounds, improved barrels + german steel. A vet 3 german steel skirted P4 can take more shots than a tiger, do you not find that broken?

The p4 won't be able to get away like the sherman + overdrive + repair while moving, like never hahah, 57s + AP will still own it.

I heard tanks are best repaired at the spawn.
I also heard blitz players have a T4 that lets you not only move, but also shoot while repairing.

[Killer344]

Good luck trying to get away from a pershing, shermans can gtfo with overdrive from panthers, and no, blitzkrieg doesn´t count here for obvious reasones.

[Mysthalin]

I heard repairing pershings have poor shooting capabilities, even with OBM.

Shermans can gtfo with overdrive from panthers, of course.
It takes 1.25 seconds for a sherman to come to a stop when it's engaged by a panther if it had been going in full speed(more if it decides to do a happy tank dance).

In this time, it will move roughly 4 more units towards it, the panther will move 6.5 units forward.

Distance : 35-10.5 = 24.5

It will take 5 seconds for the sherman to reach it's full overdrive speed. 3.25 to reach it's standard speed(at which it will be as fast as a panther).

At least another 10 units of distance are gained by the panther until the standard speed is reached by the sherman.

Distance 14.5

2 shots are already fired. The sherman will be outrunning the panther at 2.6 units per second. 20.5 units to cover until it will go out of standard LOS. That's another 8 seconds - enough for at the very least one more shot fired at the sherman, if not 2, and it'll be sheer luck if the sherman will not get another shot in it's ass when out of LOS.

The sherman is effectively out of fighting capability and in dire need of repairs, if not dead, after the very least of 3 shots taken. Good way to waste a sherman.

[Killer344]

Good good, we are making some progress now, now add to your awesome maths a vet 3 sherman fully upgraded + doctrine buffs against a vet 0 panther upgraded or not, it's the same against tanks, and you´ll reach 2 possible truths doing that, both means that something is broken.

[Mysthalin]

I will reach that with the blitz improved barrels buff the armor fully upgraded sherman will lose at least half health before reaching the panther.
I'll also reach the improbability line, as noone of sane mind buys upguns, unless they're doing it for fun - and without an upgun, I know a sherman won't beat a panther(even if it's close with vet 3, hehehe).

You're playing axis lately, aren't you?

[Killer344]

You haven't obviously read what I just wrote some posts ago, I said that veterancy + doctrine buffs breaks basic CoH mechanics, get a vet 3 fully upgraded sherman + doctrine buffs against a vet 0 unbuffed panther and you´ll see what happens, the sherman doesn't need to engage it to "win", it can pop smoke + overdrive and get out unharmed.

[Mysthalin]

What about a vet 3 P4 being more powerful than a vanilla tiger?

In my opinion, vet should be nerfed considerably on both sides.

[gamesguy2]

What about a vet 3 P4 being more powerful than a vanilla tiger?

In my opinion, vet should be nerfed considerably on both sides.

In what way is a vet 3 P4 more powerful than a tiger?

I'd love to see your logic behind this.

[gamesguy2]

Exactly, it's too small to constitute a T2 brn . I'm not saying it doesn't help, but 12 percent more range is way more powerful, for instance.

I'd rather have improved barrels than mobile warfare and scoot and shoot combined.

[Killer344]

What about a vet 3 P4 being more powerful than a vanilla tiger?

In my opinion, vet should be nerfed considerably on both sides.

I have been saying that since the 1st post, vet atm breaks gameplay.

[petewinny23]

If you ask me axis get more tanks then allies can even begin to handle. Dont axis get like 4 p4s and a panther to go with it. Were the brits get two fireflys which can just about go toe to toe with a p4, and cant go even stand against a panther. amies have 4 shermans which can go toe to toe with p4s when upgunned.

2 Fireflies is more than enough to deal with 2 panthers at once, tbh.. Micro! The firefly gets buffs the further away it is from the enemy, USE THEM!!!

HA show me the video!

When do u honestly c one panther roaming by itself NEVER! Always supported by at least one PIV or god forbid another Panther!!!! Ur illusions of 2 shermans just circle strafing 2 panthers is laughable! Ill gladly apoligise and stand corrected if u can provide a video of this!

[Mysthalin]

Winny, a firefly does not NEED to circle-strafe panthers, it's got longer range than them. 2 Panthers is 30 pop. 2 Fireflies is 24 pop. What forbids you to grab a pair of CCTs with Tank commander or a recon section to scout for the fireflies? Heck, even an ATG does a good job at that.

In what way is a vet 3 P4 more powerful than a tiger?

I'd love to see your logic behind this.

I would guess I had to mention the word "armored skirts" on top of that :

1. No engine damage critical from frontal shot ATGs below 40 health.
2. With skirts and vet 3 - roughly same health. Slightly worse recieved penetration.
3. Lower popcap.
4. Cheap and powerful top HMG upgrade.
5. Severely lower cost.
6. No PP cost(except a few SPs for the vet).
7. Faster.
8. Better targeting table and turret rotation.
9. Slightly lower damage, but better moving accuracy.

[gamesguy2]

I would guess I had to mention the word "armored skirts" on top of that :

1. No engine damage critical from frontal shot ATGs below 40 health.
2. With skirts and vet 3 - roughly same health. Slightly worse recieved penetration.
3. Lower popcap.
4. Cheap and powerful top HMG upgrade.
5. Severely lower cost.
6. No PP cost(except a few SPs for the vet).
7. Faster.
8. Better targeting table and turret rotation.
9. Slightly lower damage, but better moving accuracy.

1. Negligible
2. MUCH worse penetration.   A vet 3 P4 gets penetrated twice as often as a tiger when it comes to things like ATGs and tank guns.  The only time the P4 has an advantage is the RR, against zooks, piats, every other AT weapon in the gamep, the tiger gets penetrated much less.
4. Useless most of the time.
5. And severely lower firepower
6. At 4pp tiger isnt exactly expensive.
8. IIRC tiger and p4 has identical targetting table.
9. Much lower damage.  Tiger has something like 3 times the splash aoe of a P4.  Plus the tiger has much better penetration.