[US] [Inf] Tank Reapers

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[Malevolence]

I am loving the axis "OP!!!" cries in this thread when their  precious tanks get penetrated every time by the at guns and at weapons. I wonder if they have ever played on the allied team, where penetrating shots on armor from anything bigger then a rifle are to be expected.

I wonder if the allies who think it's perfectly alright have ever played on the axis team, where their armor is expensive and very limited while simultaneously being the core of their army?

[Jinker]

I can't help but love all of you experts that are out there: yes, I know that tank reapers was in EiR, I played that as well.

Dear Crazy, thanks for the advise, but in case you forgot, I only run my company with 4 tanks in it. The rest revolves around assault infantry and a few support weapons. I have more than enough infantry. I use combined arms 100% of the time, except when I fill up my pop with the KT, which is basically when all other units have died.

Dear Freek, "L2play newb?" way to sound like a dick muffin. thanks for the insightful advice. oh wait, I am no newb and i did have a mortar on the field, what do you know! please don't post unless you take the time to think something other than "oh noes he might have a point, i dont want them to nerf something of the allies. nerf axis!! now!". thanks!!
 If you had taken the time to actually read the whole of my post, and not assume (yup you know what you made yourself by doing that) you might have noticed that my main point was this: I have German Steel (A t4, since you seem hooked on pointing those out) I had hoped it would be worth the same 100pp that tank reapers costs. It worked OK against regular AT. Against tank reapers, it was as if I had tanks worse than normal.

Also, I have an allied armor account, with nothing worth noting in the way of doctrine abilities. Anyways, Shermans deflect the same against paks from the front as p4s do against regular atgs. Some of you may try to give the sherman a much worse reputation than it should have, maybe in hopes of getting some oil to the squeaky wheel? M10s are glass cannons, much the same as a geschutzwagen, or marder. except m10s can circle strafe.

[gamesguy2]

Also, I have an allied armor account, with nothing worth noting in the way of doctrine abilities. Anyways, Shermans deflect the same against paks from the front as p4s do against regular atgs. Some of you may try to give the sherman a much worse reputation than it should have, maybe in hopes of getting some oil to the squeaky wheel? M10s are glass cannons, much the same as a geschutzwagen, or marder. except m10s can circle strafe.

The main difference between Amer and Wehr AT is the pak will always hit and penetrate the first shot due to the first strike bonus, 57mm doesn't have that.

Between shreks/fausts and RR/zooks/stickies amer AT is a little weaker but not by much.

M10s really can't be compared to marders.  Marders are mobile ATGs and should be used a such, they have really high damage and 60 range.   Geschutzwagen is just a piece of shit, basically a more expensive marder without lockdown.

[Rayze]

I am no newb and i did have a mortar on the field, what do you know! please don't post unless you take the time to think something other than "oh noes he might have a point, i dont want them to nerf something of the allies. nerf axis!! now!". thanks!!

Mate not being funny but the only one crying about nerfing atm is you =/ and no one gives the sherman a "bad" reputation, unfortunatly it is our best tank so we have to deal with it (this is assumeing your talking about Infantry battalion)

If TR was implemented to balance out the lack of stopping power against axis vehicles then yeh its done its job pritty well, of course you dont like it your axis... just like we dont like being stomped by tanks that dont seem to want to die from our AT before it crushs past our guns (Pre-TR)

The way it seems is this allows a fair number of axis tanks to be vulnerable to the damage received that of allied tanks, the thought of it sucks doesnt it...

[Freek]

@Jink, l2playnewb was just a phrase not a personal attack.  I loose you somewhere around 'dickmuffin' and when you mention something about the logic of your previous post, which if it existed didn't transfer to your latest one. 

Oh, and next time, don't accuse me of being a 'nerf axis, not alliez!' in a thread all about 'nerf allies, not axis!' kk?

@AmPm, even if the sherman has the same hp etc of the pIV, it is not as survivable.  You forget the tendency they have to die to dual shreks, or take half+ damage from that cloaked pack before they can back up.

Now, someone in this thread mentioned something along the lines of 'allied handheld at [zooks/rrs/stickies] is only slightly subpar to axis'
Now, if we were considering all allied doctrines, I would tend to agree with you.  However, this thread is all about the inf doctrine.  W/o TR I'd rather buy my rangers w/o zooks.  Namely because they don't do much damage at range in front (or anywhere, at range, they miss a lot). 

IMHO.  TR merely bumps the infantry doctrines subpar AT to a place of superiority over most axis AT.  Considering the cost associated w/ T4's it should be so, and considering that TR has already been nerfed, this is really getting out of hand. 

Idk how many german doctrine abilities there are which make their already superior tanks into even MOAR superior ones, but I'm not crying.  TR merely makes it so I can't be totally stomped by a tank rush... until it gets behind my ATG's :sadface:

man.. I need to go to bed.  And b4 any more accusations of being a 'dickmuffin' I also play axis, not as much as allied ofc, but I found the game to be much easier that way.

enemy entrenched?->nebel->rush in with appropriate counter for support->entrench

^TR does nothing to hinder the axis counters to ATG's/zooks.  [Namely mortars, nebels, storms, and snipers, although reg inf work too if AT is unsupported.]
 

[Mysthalin]

I am loving the axis "OP!!!" cries in this thread when their  precious tanks get penetrated every time by the at guns and at weapons. I wonder if they have ever played on the allied team, where penetrating shots on armor from anything bigger then a rifle are to be expected.

I wonder if the allies who think it's perfectly alright have ever played on the axis team, where their armor is expensive and very limited while simultaneously being the core of their army?

Shall we compare the costs?

The P4 cost 5 more MP and 15 more Fuel than Shermans. Hardly a ton.
The Stug costs slightly less than the M10(I would believe this would be a more proper comparison, than M10 with a Marder/Gesch).
The M18 is just a sorry piece of crap. Costs less than a Stug, for a good reason.
No equivilent to StuH, except for AVRE. AVRE costs more, it's shots come on a cooldown.
Allies have no such thing as a "panther", so no comparison.
Pershing vs Tiger - 20 less MP 10 less FU on the pershing.
No such thing as KT on allied side.

lols, Shermans are just as durable as a P4, actually, they have more HP too....

36 HP makes a hell of a difference, doesn't it?
The pak outDPS'es the 57 mm rather considerably, consistently gets two shots off at enemy armor before they manage to reverse out, and can cloak and thus attain a first shot bonus that makes it penetrate the front armor of even pershings all the time.

The shreck is also much better at killing tanks than the bazooka. The RR is also pretty sweet, but it can indeed be bounced, and it's damage is way lower than that of a panzershreck.

[Tymathee]

I am loving the axis "OP!!!" cries in this thread when their  precious tanks get penetrated every time by the at guns and at weapons. I wonder if they have ever played on the allied team, where penetrating shots on armor from anything bigger then a rifle are to be expected.

I wonder if the allies who think it's perfectly alright have ever played on the axis team, where their armor is expensive and very limited while simultaneously being the core of their army?

I played my armor company against a tank hunters player and he totally whupped my ass. I didn't get on the boards proclaiming "OP!!!" because of it. The majority of my muni and mp were put into armor so yea, its happened to me before. The thing is, now those heavy tank companies that used to roll over allied lines can't do it against reaper companies now.

I played a game last night where I had tons of stuff left over but I was matchless against a tiger and a king tiger on the field. The allies can't do anything like that. Now, if I had reapers, it might've been different cuz I certainly would've scared the shit outta him when my zooks started taking a good chuck out that ass along with my at guns. I play plenty of games where I face 4 p4's and a panther, or 4 pf's and a tiger, its no fun, especially when the whole time they dedicate themselves taking out every at guns i've got so they can roll over me later in the game. So now we finally have a counter to it.

Lastly, I see no allied thread about heat rounds which are incredibly effective and makes tigers obsolete cuz Panthers can now snipe infantry much more effectively. I lose whole squads of infantry to one shot from a p4, i'm not on here screaming OP but yet somehow everytime the allies get something strong, the axis players get on here and start whining cuz they're so used to just rolling us over. Like I've pointed out before, a lot of axis players have high win rates so i guess when things start getting even they can't take it., just like before EIR went down the allies were pla ying really well and the axis blamed it on bars...yea BARS but then later the axis started making a major push as they all got their T4's yet the allied players sucked it up and kept on playing and even while they were winning a lot of axis players were still whining about "allied OPness" so give me a break.

[Baine]

I played my armor company against a tank hunters player and he totally whupped my ass. I didn't get on the boards proclaiming "OP!!!" because of it.

Stopped reading there. You say tank hunters are good against tanks? 

[Tymathee]

I played my armor company against a tank hunters player and he totally whupped my ass. I didn't get on the boards proclaiming "OP!!!" because of it.

Stopped reading there. You say tank hunters are good against tanks? 

smart ass i was replying to this

I wonder if the allies who think it's perfectly alright have ever played on the axis team, where their armor is expensive and very limited while simultaneously being the core of their army

There are currently no allied doctrines that are dedicated anti vehicle killers. If anything, thats the major weakness, so now, one out of the 6 allied docs can reliably kill tanks and you whine about it yet you have the most powerful anti tank weapons? Give me a break. Stop all that happy bullshit already.

[Atlanton]

There are currently no allied doctrines that are dedicated anti vehicle killers. If anything, thats the major weakness, so now, one out of the 6 allied docs can reliably kill tanks and you whine about it yet you have the most powerful anti tank weapons? Give me a break. Stop all that happy bullshit already.

Are you serious?

All Airborne is good for is taking out vehicles. I'm not saying that its overpowered, but to say that there aren't any Allied Doctrines that are dedicated vehicle killers is a fallacy.

As an Axis player, my only problem with the Tank Reapers doctrine is that it has a greater quantity and magnitude of bonuses than the majority of other T4's. You may say that HEAT rounds and German Steel affects EVERY tank, compared to Tank Reapers only affecting ATGs, stickies, and bazookas. However, consider that the maximum amount of tanks that an Axis player can realistically field is around 4 or 5 tanks (3-4 panzers and maybe a panther). I personally don't know the cost for giving bazookas to riflemen, but I do know that it isn't uncommon to see 6-8 squads of bazooka riflemen, with 3-4 AT guns, and maybe 4 rangers. Again, I don't know the specifics in a proper Tank Reaper company. Add to that the ability to pick of bazookas and ATGs and it becomes clear that the amount of units that are benefiting from Tank Reapers is substantial.

So I say tweak the numbers on Tank Reapers, so it is more in line with the other T4's and takes away the arcadey feeling that I get. I'm sorry and maybe it is just me, but I just find it ridiculous that an ATG shell and a barrage from 2 ranger squads, all to the front of a Vet 3 Panzer 3 should kill it from full health. Tank Reapers should make AT weapons formidable, but please don't make it so it almost completely changes game mechanics.

[Halfling]

AT guns are not meant to be rushed with tanks.
Just use mortar and nebel to take them out.
I have deleted my stupid comment.  

[Baine]

BTW the allied tanks are useless now with the new faust.

Care to explain? You have obviously not played the last week.

[Halfling]

I have played the last week.
Why nerf 1 good allied doctrine skill when axis got so many of those.
It is so tragic.

[Atlanton]

Do not care to explain.
I have played the last week.
Why nerf 1 good allie doctrine skill when axis got 40 of those.
It is so tragic.

Volkgrenadiers are not meant to be rushed with tanks.
Just use BARed riflemen and commandos to take them out.

[brn4meplz]

If you've played at all or even read a change log in the last week you wouldn't have made that comment, I suggest you go read the change log and modify your post before you lose all credibility in this and other threads.

[Halfling]

Then just use mortar to take AT out.
I have read the changelog.

[Atlanton]

Then just use mortar to take AT out.
I have read the changelog.

Just because something can be taken out by its hard counter doesn't mean its not overpowered.

This is probably when of the most common mistakes people make when discussing balance.

[Halfling]

But I do not want to spend 100 pp on some cover skill or faster shooting riflemen.
I want Tank Reapers but I do not want it if they nerf it to 10% on everything. 

[Atlanton]

But I do not want to spend 100 pp on some cover skill or faster shooting riflemen.
I want Tank Reapers but I do not want it if they nerf it to 10% on everything.

Ah... Nice troll. I guess I did fall for it. 

[Duckordie]

They wont nerf it,

They maybe gona buff the Allied HQ T4, it sux rabbit balls.

I love my Tank Reapers, Man those Panzer IV goes down fast,
Tigers die fast also

But the KT, wow, I run away, that bastard wont die, its so slow that it runs over my rangers lol