Axis Flammenwerfer

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[NightRain]

I'm just curious, who uses this little half-track bangbus version of IHT+Pioneers Version 1?

It cists 240 Manpower 80 Munition and 30 Fuel to buy. Plus 25 munition for Repairs.

Its Armor is same like Axis Halftracks right? it takes nice damage from one BAR squad when on distance. CAn chop health by few cms away after a while micro.

What use this thing has too? IHT with Pioneers works 2x better due to the MG supression and the better Armor of the IHT (doesn't take much damage from small arms fire)

Should this toy need little buff? Like a Price decrease?

[spinn72]

Its got the good armour, like the Whermact HT, it won't really take much damage from BARs or Brens, but they can kill it slowly.

This thing is a fantastic anti blob weapon.  It survives an ATG shot and then you can get behind it and kill it, it also has Duel Flamers so it does much more damage.  I think it's as deadly as the main gun on a Crocodile Sherman, it's just got a plastic shell instead of a steel shell.

[EliteGren]

Flammenwerfer is terrible.

[Bubz]

One usually does less than nothing, more than one may be devastating, anyway they need to be carefully microed.

[brn4meplz]

I used these more when they were 55 fuel and less munitions, Now i can't afford them in my company. I always had a 3 Flammenwerfer HT call in before, to completely roll a British infantry line or vet hunt Rangers. like i said though can't afford the munitions anymore. I used 15 pop in flammenwerfers in a game on st come du mont once to rout/kill 70 population in British infantry and support teams.

[NightRain]

the mun cost of 80 is horribly huge to a unit that is weak to small arms fire but can burn blobs before two to three piat hits destroy it after it gets buttoned? 2 Will solve the button problem, 3 will nullify it

[brn4meplz]

yeah the munitions is pretty high, but the Flammenwerfers still fire when buttoned which is sexy

[NightRain]

yeah the munitions is pretty high, but the Flammenwerfers still fire when buttoned which is sexy

But usually dies afterwards.

I'd say that Axis Flammenwerfer needs a price decrease. It surely does not pay itself back with 280 mp and 80 mun with that 30 fuel cost.

It is usually waste of resources, it can be harmed by small arms and it gets destroyed pretty much immidiately once 1 zook or piat squad comes by.

[jackmccrack]

Most smart players use Flammenwerfer HTs in pairs or in triplets. With these numbers they are capable of making back their price by flanking and mopping up weapons teams, ATGs, and unprepared inf.

With Flame HTs its all about "get the hell in there and get the hell out".

Changing the price might have some undesirable effect on the metagame of the Flammenwerfer.

[Guderian]

But we got to ask if we want it to be a unit where it works excellent after you have 2-4 units of it.

I say price increase along with buffs.

hmmm

Tricky..

[NightRain]

Most smart players use Flammenwerfer HTs in pairs or in triplets. With these numbers they are capable of making back their price by flanking and mopping up weapons teams, ATGs, and unprepared inf.

With Flame HTs its all about "get the hell in there and get the hell out".

Changing the price might have some undesirable effect on the metagame of the Flammenwerfer.

In most cases yes but I've had that toy flaming an ATG for 12 seconds then some tank came and shot the anti tank gun.
12 seconds. Its a very very long time and that ATG has time to turn and as well the enemy got time to call in a light vehicle to blast that flammenwerfer out. IF there's two of them on the field at the same time I'd say they can rape support weapons in a sim city full of buildings but I'd still call them ineffective. This toy is seen in rare conditions in the leaderboard and is mainly a suicide unit. IHT with Pioneers+flamers works 2x effective compared to flammenwerfer.

Hell I had to chase commandos around supported with a panther, that thing only killed 4 commandos while Panther did most of the killing. I'd say that it needs a price reduction. Not that this thing can be spammed, its easy to counter with 1 Sticky since this thing dies to 2-3 stickies and to 2 ATG shots. Weak little toy if ya ask me. I still have to test will it flush a MG with AP rounds out from a building before itself dies xD

[NightRain]

I'mma rise this thread from its grave.


Now.

Flammenwerfer has got its buff. Flamethrower damage increased to match Pioneer flamethrower.

Has this change brought anything new to the Dual flamethrower track? Does anyone use it anymore?

[3rdCondor]

flammenwerfer is  kinda like secret service agents:
they don't do sh!t but at least they act as cannon fodder for something more important

[RubixCubed]

axis flammenwerfer is balanced.

[Demon767]

balanced in a way that it sucks?

[NightRain]

Another Question:

WHO USES THIS UNIT?!

[Mysthalin]

*tumble-weed rolls by.

[DuckOfDoom]

Q: What counter an axis Flammenwerfer?

A: Its too busy countering itself

[Killer344]

Are they still shit? I thought the damage increase should help them kill something..

[lionel23]

Well I think the issue is that flamers have a disadvantage that is not in step with most axis armies, mainly reliable damage.

Say there is an Allied AT gun and you flak with said Flammenwerfer, you could literally sit there for a minute sometimes and NOT DO ANY DAMAGE, Sherman Crocodile has that problem and most likely in those cases dies without earning back its costs (though when it gets a lucky crit to say instant kill a ranger squad, now that is awesome).

Then you add to the fact it costs fuel, and where every Wehr army has butt loads of Panzer 4s, Pathers, or the mandatory KT/Tiger... then it just doesn't fit overall into the grand scheme of most companies.  Why field a flame halftrack when a regular p4 can do the job and single-handedly own a non-Armor Coy. Sherman?  Also with skirts its taking less damage and lasts a whole lot longer than an apc chasis.  Not to mention many axis doctrine buffs affect the P4 like German Steel, improved barrels, etc and nothing really for flammenwerfers in comparison.

Same problem applies to the Sherman Croc, as an illustration.  Why take the croc when - in this case - the allied sherman is the same cost roughly, can semi-counter tanks, and the flame vehicle itself is mainly geared towards AI instead of dual AI/AT versatility?  I think for Wehr the comparison would be an ostwind/P4 (replacing the sherman in my example) to a Flammenwerfer (replacing the crocodile)... there's just better, most effective alternatives instead of just throwing away units/resources.

Ask yourself would you rather have your resources tied up in one hard to kill unit or several easy to blow up units? The tougher ones, at least in the EIRR environment, tend to survive longer to work their magic and make them worth their cost and investment.