Boys AT

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[salan]

ug, its got a good value on there.. Dude im not going to go change stats around on anything if they aren't broken.

the rear penetration modifier on a stugs ass is 5.02 with and without skirts..


how is stug BROKEN?

[Malevolence]

Because it deflects shots to the ass from an AT weapon? And for some reason the Hetzer doesn't? It's not particularly in line with each other. Predictable performance is important for a weapon in my opinion. Generally speaking this includes being able to penetrate rear armor, but if you don't want it to be able to, then it's probably going to be doomed to mediocrity and nobody will buy it for its intended use.

[AmPM]

Its a 14mm round, how would it penetrate the STuGs rear anyway?

Its for anti LIGHT vehicle use.

[gamesguy2]

Its a 14mm round, how would it penetrate the STuGs rear anyway?

Its for anti LIGHT vehicle use.

It could penetrate 21mm of armor at 100 meters.  The Stug only had 20mm of armor on the rear.

[Halfling]

My opinion is that the AT rifle should be very good against light vehicles and a little better than No.4 rifle against infantry.

[AmPM]

And if it fired from any angle other than flat it wouldn't.

The Boys was crap, and I don't even know why its in the game at this point in the war.

Give it a dedicated light AT use to kill small fast vehicles.

Then you have 2 types of AT, for 2 different things, and Brens to button.

[gamesguy2]

And if it fired from any angle other than flat it wouldn't.

The Boys was crap, and I don't even know why its in the game at this point in the war.

The same reason the ostwind, bergetiger, FG42, etc are in this game.

[AmPM]

The OSt and Berge I have no idea why they are here, the g43 they made 400,000 of, its not exactly rare, and the FG42 was used, but was quickly replaced, it should be STG44's or G43's instead.

The Boys was an old weapon in 1940, and any unit that could replaced them quickly in 1941 and 42. It makey no sense.

And if anyone wants to bring up the reliability of STuGs and PIVs...

"It is suggested to the Red Army to use such German tanks as StuG III and Pz IV due to their relability and availability of spare parts. The new German Panther and Tiger can be used until they broken down without trying to repair them. They have bad engines, transmission and suspension." - Department of Weaponry of the Red Army, late 1944.

[gamesguy2]

The OSt and Berge I have no idea why they are here, the g43 they made 400,000 of, its not exactly rare, and the FG42 was used, but was quickly replaced, it should be STG44's or G43's instead.

The Boys was an old weapon in 1940, and any unit that could replaced them quickly in 1941 and 42. It makey no sense.

It makes about as much sense as putting in a tank that as far as anyone could tell, is completely unique and wasn't actually capable of doing what it was designed for.

Or a tank of which only 40 were built.

Or a rifle of which only a few hundred were built.

The P4 IST is also obsolete by 1944 as well, but relic still put it in.

Realism has no place in coh.

[AmPM]

Exactly, so stop complaining that it could realistically MAYBE penetrate the rear of a STuG in optimal conditions.

It should be the Brit anti-light vehicle gun.

[gamesguy2]

Exactly, so stop complaining that it could realistically MAYBE penetrate the rear of a STuG in optimal conditions.

It should be the Brit anti-light vehicle gun.

Its a 14mm round, how would it penetrate the STuGs rear anyway?

Its for anti LIGHT vehicle use.

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over you bringing realism into the debate and complaining that it was only a 14mm round.

[AmPM]

No, its a debate on:

PIAT = Heavy brit manpacked

Boys = light brit AT

Bren = button

People want to be able to field Boys squads due to them not losing any anti infantry ability to kill tanks that are buttoned. Thats a problem.

[Piotrskivich]

The problem with the boys AT rifle is that it was made to fight older tanks like the panzer I.

It does not fit in in 1944 era battles. It's almost like adding a musket armed soldier.

[acker]

...And if the V1 can be laser-guided, than the Boys AT rifle can fit in the scenario.

No realism in this game, unfortunately. Well, fortunately.

[Malevolence]

Its a 14mm round, how would it penetrate the STuGs rear anyway?

Its for anti LIGHT vehicle use

I just don't even know what to do with this.

Realism fail(1), gameplay fail(2), big fail all around.

Every other weapon in the game that can reliably kill light vehicles can reliably penetrate tank rear armor, I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be able to penetrate tank rear armor in game.

Furthermore,

And if it fired from any angle other than flat it wouldn't.

The Boys was crap, and I don't even know why its in the game at this point in the war.

Give it a dedicated light AT use to kill small fast vehicles.

Then you have 2 types of AT, for 2 different things, and Brens to button.

It wouldn't at one hundred meters. The ranges in this game, mr realism, are well below 100 meters. The men are clearly myopic and cannot aim properly, and the bullets appear to be fairly low velocity and nonharmful, but at least the penetration model is close to realistic.

A boys AT Rifle from 20 feet could penetrate the rear armor of almost any tank in this game. Granted, from the 20 foot engagement ranges of any tank in this game almost any round could penetrate the front armor of any tank. So really, realism doesn't make a lot of sense, you're right, but only after you tried to use it as an excuse.

However, secondary AT weapons such as the Bazooka are easily able to penetrate tank rear armor (by a factor of hundreds of percent sometimes), so I don't see why the boys AT rifle shouldn't be able to. Bazooka is 50 munitions and counters light vehicles and tank rear armor, boys AT rifle should be 50 munitions and counter light vehicle and tank rear armor. It phases through light vehicles a lot, so it balances this fact by being decent against infantry. Done and balanced.

(1) Realism fail because the Boys AT rifle can realistically penetrate the rear armor and track armor of vehicles like StuGs and Panthers.

(2) Gameplay fail because it's not in line with other supplemental AT weapons.

[AmPM]

Its not a supplemental AT weapon though, nobody else has a random extra light AI/AT weapon.

It was specifically put in to allow Brits to more easily deal with ACs and HTs.

That is what it should be good against.

Also look at the game ranges, they are not to scale, so no, none of these battles use any real world measurements.

[Draken]

...And if the V1 can be laser-guided

And maybe it's not laserguided, it's fricking jdam bomb, lawlz.

[acker]

...And if the V1 can be laser-guided

And maybe it's not laserguided, it's fricking jdam bomb, lawlz.

JDAM kits only apply to bombs under 2,000 pounds. The V1 is over 4,000 pounds. Therefore, it's laser-guided.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Direct_Attack_Munition

[IIPraeToriaNII]

read for yourselves....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb

and when did people start dropping the suffixes/plurals to 'fail': fails, failed, failing, failure....?

(sounds pretty fricking gay)

[acker]

read for yourselves....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb

My point exactly. A below-50% chance of hitting London, and these things are pinpoint accurate?

Laser guidance is the only explanation, since JDAM kits can't fit the V1. It even explains why you need LOS to begin the V1 drop.