Improved Barrels

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[gamesguy2]

+5 range to all tanks is just far too good for a tier 2.  Improved barrels is better than all three of the armor doctrine tier 2 buffs(tungsten tipping, mobile warfare, scoot and shoot) combined.

It needs to be limited only to tigers, or the armor tier 2s need to be hugely buffed to match.

[spinn72]

For blitzkrieg i'm thinking maybe +5 range for the stuh???  So therefore it would be more like a buff to the tank because it is in the doctrine.  Would be useful too, since the Stuh is deadly to infantry.

[Atlanton]

For blitzkrieg i'm thinking maybe +5 range for the stuh???  So therefore it would be more like a buff to the tank because it is in the doctrine.  Would be useful too, since the Stuh is deadly to infantry.

...

I appreciate the effort. But seriously...

...

[IIPraeToriaNII]

combined???

someone forgot to lay off the crack for the weekend....

if thats your idea of a perspective, its insanely boxed in....

so, carry on big dick...lol

(are you frickin kidding me?)

id take tungsten tipping anyday over improved barrels, but i guess its how you play, or how you lost....

[gamesguy2]

For blitzkrieg i'm thinking maybe +5 range for the stuh???  So therefore it would be more like a buff to the tank because it is in the doctrine.  Would be useful too, since the Stuh is deadly to infantry.

+5 range for stuh and tiger seems reasonable.

[gamesguy2]

combined???

someone forgot to lay off the crack for the weekend....

if thats your idea of a perspective, its insanely boxed in....

so, carry on big dick...lol

(are you frickin kidding me?)

id take tungsten tipping anyday over improved barrels, but i guess its how you play, or how you lost....

What good is penetration if you can't shoot your target?

At higher level of play tank combat is mostly a series of kiting and one shot snipes.   Improved barrels allow you to snipe without getting shot at in return and Heat rounds improve that ability.

Armor company tanks are currently worse than blitz tanks despite the fact that blitz has one of the best elite infantries in the game available as well as an offmap.    This should not be the case.   Armor company should have the best tanks in the game given their entire company is focused on one thing.

[AmPM]

That would be the most worthless t2 available. Tiger is fail, STuH is fail.

Just vet up some P4s and have longer range anyway.

TT, Shoot and Scoot, etc. favor aggressive brawling with your tanks. Also, the P4 is worse at range vs a Sherman than a Sherman is at range vs the P4. Combine the extra penetration and RoF and its not even a contest close in.

You take your Improved Barrel P4, and I'll take a Sherman with Overdrive, TT, Shoot and Scoot, etc.

Wonder which will win...

[gamesguy2]

That would be the most worthless t2 available. Tiger is fail, STuH is fail.

Just vet up some P4s and have longer range anyway.

TT, Shoot and Scoot, etc. favor aggressive brawling with your tanks. Also, the P4 is worse at range vs a Sherman than a Sherman is at range vs the P4. Combine the extra penetration and RoF and its not even a contest close in.

You take your Improved Barrel P4, and I'll take a Sherman with Overdrive, TT, Shoot and Scoot, etc.

Wonder which will win...

Ok AMPM, go make an armor company.

I want to see you beat improved barrels/heat rounds P4s with next gen/TT/S&S/MF shermans.

Also, aggressive brawling?  Against cloaked paks and cloaked storms?  Ya ok you can go ahead and suicide all your tanks.

[AmPM]

So it has nothing to do with the t2, also, if you want to factor in ATGs and such, then they all have longer range than any of those tanks, and it wouldn't make any difference.

So basically, you were trying to rush in to kill PAKs, got ambushed, and lost your tanks?

[gamesguy2]

So it has nothing to do with the t2, also, if you want to factor in ATGs and such, then they all have longer range than any of those tanks, and it wouldn't make any difference.

So basically, you were trying to rush in to kill PAKs, got ambushed, and lost your tanks?

Nice backtrack.

You proposed that shermans should be used aggressively, thats what happens when you use them aggressively, you die to paks and storms.

You can't win a long range snipe duel because the P4 has longer range and higher alpha than you.   You can't charge in due to paks and shreks.

So yes, it has to do with improved barrels.  Without it you could trade shots with the P4 at long range.  

Also I'd love to see how you went from me saying that tank combat at higher levels is mostly one shot snipes and kiting and that rushing in is not a viable strategy due to cloaked paks and storms to

"So basically, you were trying to rush in to kill PAKs, got ambushed, and lost your tanks?"

If you can't post honestly AMPM, don't post.

[AmPM]

That's what I do with my tanks, I try to go kill dedicated AT with them, always the best use of resources.

Why would you be sniping at the P4? That's what ATG's are for. Seriously, who the hell rushes a tank in against AT unsupported? Oh yea...allied players. Then they come and complain about axis AT.

[gamesguy2]

That's what I do with my tanks, I try to go kill dedicated AT with them, always the best use of resources.

Why would you be sniping at the P4? That's what ATG's are for. Seriously, who the hell rushes a tank in against AT unsupported? Oh yea...allied players. Then they come and complain about axis AT.

I love how you just start making shit up at random after your argument collapses.

No point arguing with you AMPM, this will be my last post in reply to you.

[DuckOfDoom]

Posting to say that improved barrels are not really a problem in ANY level of play, due to low level of max range tank gun accuracy.

[gamesguy2]

Posting to say that improved barrels are not really a problem in ANY level of play, due to low level of max range tank gun accuracy.

Yes 75% accuracy is really low.

[IIPraeToriaNII]

combined???

someone forgot to lay off the crack for the weekend....

if thats your idea of a perspective, its insanely boxed in....

so, carry on big dick...lol

(are you frickin kidding me?)

id take tungsten tipping anyday over improved barrels, but i guess its how you play, or how you lost....

What good is penetration if you can't shoot your target?

At higher level of play tank combat is mostly a series of kiting and one shot snipes.   Improved barrels allow you to snipe without getting shot at in return and Heat rounds improve that ability.

Armor company tanks are currently worse than blitz tanks despite the fact that blitz has one of the best elite infantries in the game available as well as an offmap.    This should not be the case.   Armor company should have the best tanks in the game given their entire company is focused on one thing.

like i said....

but i guess its how you play, or how you lost....

[DuckOfDoom]

Posting to say that improved barrels are not really a problem in ANY level of play, due to low level of max range tank gun accuracy.

Yes 75% accuracy is really low.

32.5% if there is a piece of heavy cover between you and the target, which SHOULD be there unless you are retarded

[gamesguy2]

Posting to say that improved barrels are not really a problem in ANY level of play, due to low level of max range tank gun accuracy.

Yes 75% accuracy is really low.

32.5% if there is a piece of heavy cover between you and the target, which SHOULD be there unless you are retarded

Tanks don't get cover bonuses.

Not to mention ya your infantry is always sitting in heavy cover facing the enemy just in case a 50 range P4 decided to show up, they never move, they never garrison, they always have green cover available.  

EDIT: by your logic tanks never are a threat, because last time I checked cover bouses aren't dependent on range.

[pqumsieh]

I agree with gamesguy. Improved barrels is just too powerful for a t2 when compared to other doctrine buffs. At high levels of play, range buffs are huge. Most good players will micro their tanks to take advantage of their range. Hence, a P4 with 50 yards of range can easily be a deadly force on the field with forward infantry support.


Bottom line, a T2 doctrine ability should NOT improve the range of all tanks by 10%. Maybe one or two tanks, but even that is pushing it.

PQ

[DuckOfDoom]

Tanks don't get cover bonuses.

O rly

then why do their weapons have a COVER TABLE? wow you are retarded

[gamesguy2]

Tanks don't get cover bonuses.

O rly

then why do their weapons have a COVER TABLE? wow you are retarded

I'm just going to quote this so you can't delete it.