4 man KCH

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[Unkn0wn]

Both 4 man KCH and flamethrower assault grenadiers not being able to cap is a bug and will be fixed next patch.

[boobaka]

So the pop is not 5 like it says ?

no the pop at the moment in launcher is 5, in game its 7

[Smokaz]

I wanna see this 4 man kch in action before I pass judgement. I think commandos are still gonna rape em using smoke, rangers will still roll over them.. bars+flamers will still rape them (cheaper munitions wise and probably manpower wise, we'll see). They got very little going for them against a competent player, imo. Assault grenadiers with Flamer have much more going for them, pair them up with a normal assault gren squad and you'll shave off a lot of HP in close combat without killing but the flamer will burst up the entire allied squad.

Also, I hope flamethrower crit chances are getting reduced in the future. Nothing like your vet 3 engineers/pios bursting in flame from a unlucky crit.. Which seems to happen fairly often these days.

[boobaka]

KCH beat rangers on 1on1 ...60/40...and with medpacks can win with 3 men left depending on cover...and you can get a 4th man and your complaining....KCH should be mandos if the mandos are charging but again depends..and srtop crying axis fan boy.... and who uses kich to kill infantry like that...you use a cheap counter like flames

yes i am complaining

rangers are free in the doc and the 4th man on the KCH is one of the two T3 you can get. and the cost of a 4 man KCH is bigger than rangers.
when rangers losses men then drop zooks so the AI abillity is not getting worse if u are lucky but the KCH will loss 1/3 or 1/4 of its fighing power..
did i say its cost more than rangers?
or did i not say the 4th man is a T3? do you know how much a T3 can do for your company?

[boobaka]

I wanna see this 4 man kch in action before I pass judgement. I think commandos are still gonna rape em using smoke, rangers will still roll over them.. bars+flamers will still rape them (cheaper munitions wise and probably manpower wise, we'll see). They got very little going for them against a competent player, imo.

thank you for this smokey

[DasNoob]

What i love is how old school baka is and he only has 80 posts.  He only posts when he is really pissed off 

Don't worry m8, things are being looked at.

[Smokaz]

Dont give him too much credit, he's too drunk to type most of the time 

Apparently his push-to-talk button in Ventrilo is also connected to his USB beer chiller

[DasNoob]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Mysthalin]

FYI boobaka :
Rangers cost 300 MP 220 MU with thompsons.
Rangers are utterly useless with their thompsons against anyone who has even the slightest idea what he's doing. Unless they're in a blob of 4 - then they're a bit more of a bitch, but still counterable, and horribly expensive.

Ranger health per man - 65, infantry armor(it has been changed specificaly for EiR ages ago).
KCH health per man - 90, heroic armor.
Small table of STG44 KCH vs Thompson Rangers at close range.

/////////////            Thompson       STG44
Burst                         1.5s            0.9s
ROF                            10               7
Damage per bullet         3.75             7
Damage per burst         56.25           42
Accuracy                     64%           90%
Real Dmg p/burst           37.5            35
Cooldown                     1.11s          0.35s

So, basicaly, even if rangers will do a total of 45 more damage in the first burst vs a 3-man KCH squad, the KCH will fire off the second burst more than twice as fast(including fire aim time and ready aim time).
So it would go something like this :

Rangers deal 150 damage in the first burst, KCH deal 105 damage in the first burst.
One man possibly dead on the KCH side, one man possibly dead on the rangers side.
KCH shoot their second burst, dealing 70 more damage. Likely, 2 ranger men down total, with one more heavily injured.

Now it can go a number of ways from this.
2 Bazooka men killed.
Rangers deal 150 damage in their second burst, KCH fire off their 3rd burst and deal <52.5 damage.
KCH die, one more man dies on the ranger squad. 3 thompson guys survive the battle, one of them possibly injured.

1 Bazooka, 1 Thompson killed
Rangers deal 112.5 damage in their second burst. KCH fire off their 3rd burst and deal ~52.5 damage(one guy dies mid-way).
Rangers lose one more guy in this shot, KCH lose one guy.
KCH fires off his 4th volley, rangers reload. KCH guy deals another 35 damage, killing a 4th guy, then runs off in retreat and probably dies.
KCH die, rangers lose 4 men.

2 Thompsons killed
Rangers deal 75 damage in their second burst. KCH fire off their 3rd burst and deal, again ~52.5 damage(one guy dies mid way again).
Rangers lose one more guy in this shot, KCH lose one guy.
KCH guy fires off his 4th volley, rangers are reloading. This deals another 37.5 damage, killing a 4th guy.
Now, this can go a number of ways again.

If the two kills were the two bazooka men, the KCH guy is fucked.
If the two kills killed at least one thompson, the KCH guy gets to reload through the single thompson's fire, and if he doesn't die to the bazooka, half healths another ranger before losing.
If the two kills were the two left thompson men, the KCH guy just proceeds to shoot down the bazooka men. That is, if he doesn't get gibbed by the bazooka shells.

This, however, involves the fight starting at close range and being immobile, which is usualy not the case. The STG44 has significantly better accuracy at medium range than the thompson, but the thompson's short range is longer so.. It's pretty hard to decide who would win.

A 4-man KCH squad would definately rape thomspon rangers in the face, however.

[gamesguy2]

Ranger health per man - 65, infantry armor(it has been changed specificaly for EiR ages ago).

Rangers have elite armor.

Rest of your calcs is now wrong due to this.

[Baine]

Ranger health per man - 65, infantry armor(it has been changed specificaly for EiR ages ago).

Rangers have elite armor.

Rest of your calcs is now wrong due to this.

Double pwned in two Threads! Awesome!

Delete me.

[salan]

well as far as new units go, it was my first time creating them, I figured out that global abilities needed to go in the racesbps, so maybe there is something like that that I missed for the units to be able to cap.. they were direct copies of their other units hmmm...

as for the population of the kch, i was going to make them 6 (2 2pop, 2 1pop) but we needed to try it at 3 2pop men first so they came out at 7 pop total


the pricing? I don't know what its set at, I didn't set up their sql entry personally.  and pricing is always open for change and balance as units are tested.

[boobaka]

thank to all u guys who gives me the info and stats! 

well lets say that 4 man kch take down the rangers but its still a t3 i get to do so. and the cost is more manpower to the kch and more mu to the rangers. but in the stats u didn't mention the longrang zook lol hits as most well played allied do.

lets face it no one want to get there high cost units damaged to half the affectiveness. and getting a T3 just to have a chance to win against rangers in 1v1 and if wins the fight it still can't do much after is not good.

[boobaka]

What i love is how old school baka is and he only has 80 posts.  He only posts when he is really pissed off 

Don't worry m8, things are being looked at.

thanks to that. i don't like to post cuz
1 always drunk
2 lazy
3 don't want ppl to bitch about my post

 

[Mysthalin]

Ranger health per man - 65, infantry armor(it has been changed specificaly for EiR ages ago).

Rangers have elite armor.

Rest of your calcs is now wrong due to this.

When(and why) exactly was this done? It had been infantry armor, just like grenadiers at vet 2 with infantry armor, since before I joined EiR :S. Looking at the .rgd, I do see you are right, however :S.

yeah, it would tilt the favor to the rangers quite significantly. >.<

[Lt_Apollo]

Rangers, commandos, brens, bars>KCH

[Tymathee]

lmao maybe you just don't use them right.

[Mysthalin]

rangers < anyone with half a brain.
KCH > BARs(hooray to 0.5 recieved suppresion and an audio queue that tells you the BARs are using SF).

[Blitzen]

Question.  Why does the fourth man cost anything??  Any other doctrine that makes your units better doesn't increase their price.  Tanks don't cost more with heat rounds, atgs don't cost more with Tank repears. Ect with a ton of other doc choices.

[gamesguy2]

rangers < anyone with half a brain.

Rangers> KCH, but loses to LMG grens. 

KCH > BARs(hooray to 0.5 recieved suppresion and an audio queue that tells you the BARs are using SF).

Are we gonna have this argument again?   0.5 received suppression does jack shit when the bar rifle squad is outputting more suppression than an MG42.  Go walk your KCH in front of a MG42 and then tell me how long it takes to suppress them.

I've seen 2 bar rifles beat three KCH because the KCH had to charge across an open field while the bars used SF.