Improvements to Scortched Earth Doctrine

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[pqumsieh]

Hey guys, just wanted to discuss some improvements that I think should be added to the scortched earth doctrine. In my opinion, it is the least attractive at the moment out of the 3 PE doctrines. Here are my suggestions:

I think we should add more doctrine abilities that provide passive upgrades to units. One example might be a damage increase to the Mortor Halftrack or a range increase on the Hummel. Perhaps focusing on the G43 and assault troops would be the best route. Increase rate of fire on the g43 or better yet, increase the % of slow applied to targets affected by volley fire.

Here are some direct examples

Advanced Volley Fire: Volley Fire now reduces the movement speed of infantry by an additional 50%.

Advanced Munitions: Mortor Halftracks now deal 20% more damage (effecting both types of mortors)

Rapid Fire: Increase the rate of fire on the G43 by 25% (this can be lower or higher depending on tier)

Rapid Response: Increase the speed of halftracks and Hummel by 20% (again, % can be adjusted depending on tier)

Basic Fortifications: Standard Panzer Grenediers can now build wire and sandbags (could be attacked to road blocks or seperated, might be better off seperated)

Petrolium Igniters: Flame grenades, flame assaults, and HE Flame mortors now do their damage in half the time, causing flame effects to end 50% sooner but deliver their payload 50% faster. (most flame attacks are avoided within 1 or 2 seconds, this makes their damage dependent on time spend within the flames. Therefore, other upgrades (like straight damage increase) will only have a portion of their damage actually put into play. Increasing the rate at which the damage is applied is one route)

Petrolium Ignitors(2): Flame attacks now last 50% longer, this causes damage done to be applied slower as a result. (this variation can be used as a means of area denial. Rather then try and hurt infantry, this would divert them by saturating an area for a long period of time.

Petrolium Ignitors(3): Increase the radias of flame nades, flame assault, and MHT Flame Mortor by 25%. (this might be easier to code, and it provides a bit of variation 1 and 2. Larger radias means more time spend in flame attacks, hence, they are able to put out more of their damage.)

*firecracker mines can also be applied to petrolium ignitors*

Advanced Firing Mechanism: Mortors and Hummels fire 30% faster.

Just some suggestions, what do you guys think. Anyone else have any good ideas for potential additions to the scortched earth doctrine

PQ

[Atlanton]

Balance can always be tweaked, but I like a lot of your ideas.

I think the biggest concept you covered was the idea of passive abilities. Every doctrine for every faction needs to have passive abilities that affect certain units. This makes it so the units affected are definitive of that doctrines play style, as opposed to a cookie cutter company composition that depends on commander abilities to make it different.

In the case of PE, Tank Destroyers companies are defined by bad ass mardars, tank busters, and P4 IS. Luftwaffe are defined by emplacements, luftwaffles, and FJs. Scorched Earth should be defined by something like mortars, flame grenadiers, and G43s.

[Mysthalin]

G43 suggestion is impossible to implement.

[Smokaz]

One of the most dissapointing things about SE is the fact that EIRR implementation didn't include boobytraps. In Vcoh, these are used on strat points and inside buildings to set off a incendary effect. Its deadly against low health rifle-type of squads, dangerous to mgs etc. But no biggie to exit the building quickly with a tommy or rifle squad taking minimal damage, but preventing the use of the building. It could be a upgrade on SE pgs costing 30 munitions and just use the demo charge icon.

I think about half of your suggesstions although good on their own are very uncharacteristic for the doctrine. Quicker shooting g43s, rapid fire and rapid response dont see very area denial/trap-like to me.

If they plan to add any more to SE doctrine, my hope is that it is stuff like booby traps, enemy caps slower, that sort of thing.

[deadbolt]

One of the most dissapointing things about SE is the fact that EIRR implementation didn't include boobytraps. In Vcoh, these are used on strat points and inside buildings to set off a incendary effect. Its deadly against low health rifle-type of squads, dangerous to mgs etc. But no biggie to exit the building quickly with a tommy or rifle squad taking minimal damage, but preventing the use of the building. It could be a upgrade on SE pgs costing 30 munitions and just use the demo charge icon.

I think about half of your suggesstions although good on their own are very uncharacteristic for the doctrine. Quicker shooting g43s, rapid fire and rapid response dont see very area denial/trap-like to me.

If they plan to add any more to SE doctrine, my hope is that it is stuff like booby traps, enemy caps slower, that sort of thing.

In vcoh i knew the trap was in there, hopped in to ddetonate it then exited straight away, it owned a 100%hp rifle immediately.

[Baine]

^This and leave it as it is, at the moment it's already dangerous for MGs and no biggy for fast moving units.

[RikiRude]

yeah the whole point of SE in vcoh is only one specialty unit, the hummel, and just complete area denial and attrition through artillery and booby traps. booby trap every single point, every building, mine areas, leave that area, and now you can focus on big pushes. but in eirr environment things are so different it's harder to apply those things.

you need to add costs and cool downs to the booby traps because the enemy can't simply retreat and reinforce, and the power of the booby trap lies in resource denial on strat points plus damage, with no strat points you have to rething.

maybe an idea which goes along with what smokaz was saying make booby traps able to be put anywhere or only in green cover/yellow cover, and give them a 6 or 8 minute cool down, something along those lines. this goes along with attrition and area denial.

[Mysthalin]

My idea of booby traps : 5 minute cooldown, placeable anywhere(including houses), come for free.

[Atlanton]

Well, maybe adding some passive abilities that reduce G43 slow cooldown, increase slow duration, increase mortar ROF, etc.

Basically, Scorched Earth is about stalling and slowing the enemy while your indirect fire and booby traps wear the enemy down.

[CommanderHolt]

What I notice about Booby Traps (in buildings) in EiRR is there usually only 1 or 2 detonations which only takes out 1 or 2 mans.

I think that is way overpriced for a 1 use 45 muns ability.

[pqumsieh]

well, booby traps shouldnt be planted anywhere, just in buildings I recon. Lower the cost or make them a cooldown ability. scortched earth is suppose to get the ability to lay down demo charges anywhere with a T2 unlock, so that should cover that area. I think i'd like to see an ability that allows the ketten to be used more as a unit. Either a T1 unlock that increases its radias to that of a jeep/bike or some other cooldown based ability. As it stands, kettans have less viability for scortched earth then for other PE doctrines. Making them a scouting unit might help with artillery and what not.

Also, a doctrine buff that effects the vamp halftrack might also play well for scortched earth. I use the vamp as a means to detect and then artillery infantry, so increasing its radias or allowing it to see tanks as well could be quite a nice T3.

Discuss

PQ

[Wnb 1337]

Yeah, i like the idea of Scorched Earth, but it lacks "interesting" abilities and/or units, making it less interesting. I love the hummel but when thinking that its all the scorched earth rly gives, i choose not to take SE as my doctorine.

[Unkn0wn]

We'll actually be tweaking booby traps to make them more effective.
Firecracker mines are meant to simulate vCOH strat point boobytrapping in a sense although we are aware that currently they may be underpowered/too expensive.

We have some other abilities in place yet to be revealed that will hopefully make the doctrine a lot more appealing.

[crimsonrabbit]

Sounds nice 

[pqumsieh]

also, can we make it so firecracker mines are only triggered by infantry? Not sure if they already are setup like that, dont think so though. This would increase their effectiveness quite a bit.

Discuss

[jackmccrack]

They can only be triggered by infantry already.

[Piotrskivich]

The flammen grenadiers could use a change, it seems having the flamethrower is just a liability because he often explodes killing his remaining 2 or 3 comrades.

[brn4meplz]

yeah the flame grens are gonna get looked into. they were the whole reason i chose the doctrine but as soon as the squad gets shot at theres a bang and 4 flaming piles of goo on the ground

[Sixpack]

I ll just recycle this thread for some things:

SE Doctrines T3/4

T3
1) Incendiary Assault
2) Munitions Sabotage

To 1: I do not realy think that it would be worth it to get more assault, it is always nice against blobs but I do not think it will be realy usefull compared to things like Sector Arty or Ostfront veterans (not sure how group zeal is supposed to work and if it is worth it....)

2) What will this do, sounds like something not worth it to be honest?

T4
1)Shell Loading
2)Opening Barrage

1) Remove it, either one of the four shots will hit what you want it to hit or it is too late.
The only worthwhile targets would be emplacements, not worth a T4 for that.

2) Usefull only if you attack and only once against the players, you d have to find new ones for every game for it to work and be moderatly usefull.
Maybe give something like sector barrage that randomly bombards a whole sector for 5 minutes, SE is all about area denial in my opinion.


See you guys next weekend.

[Smokaz]

How about adding kettenkrad ability to capture territory? You could hide them around the map and stop the allies from capping. Evil, evil and evil.