Piat Ambush

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[Mysthalin]

This whole thread is made of fail, tbh.

[gamesguy2]

Gamesguy you seem to forget that stormtroopers are movable in cloak and PIAT sappers must find the perfect place to camo and then cloak, stormtroopers can use their cloak offensively to kill tanks at will

Whats with the retarded comparison to stormtroopers?

Storms are doctrinal elite infantry that cost a huge amount of munitions, piat sappers are regular line infantry that cost a medium amount of munitions.  Comparing to storms is inherently dishonest.

The best comparison is the grenadier with a single shrek.


Grenadier: 240 manpower, 120 munitions for a single shrek.
Sappers:  200 manpower, 100 munitions for two piats.

Can anyone say with a straight face that the sappers are not 2x better than the grens?   

[Lemures]

The comparison is made because you're complaining about ambush, which is a cloak ability.

[LuAn]

Gamesguy you seem to forget that stormtroopers are movable in cloak and PIAT sappers must find the perfect place to camo and then cloak, stormtroopers can use their cloak offensively to kill tanks at will

Whats with the retarded comparison to stormtroopers?

Storms are doctrinal elite infantry that cost a huge amount of munitions, piat sappers are regular line infantry that cost a medium amount of munitions.  Comparing to storms is inherently dishonest.

The best comparison is the grenadier with a single shrek.


Grenadier: 240 manpower, 120 munitions for a single shrek.
Sappers:  200 manpower, 100 munitions for two piats.

Can anyone say with a straight face that the sappers are not 2x better than the grens?   

I do!

Sappers: 240 HP in 4 Man
Grenadiers: 320 HP in 4 Man
Sappers Lee Enfield Rifle
Kark98K
Piat
Panzerschreck

Engineers 110 MP, 3 pop Flamethrower 50 Mun Democharge 60 Mun (1 use) American Mines 35 Mun (2 uses) Minesweeper 10 Mun Machine Gun Nest 50 Mun (1 use) Triage Center 120 Mun (1 use) Wire Sandbags Tanktraps Sappers 200 MP, 4 pop Piats 100 Mun Detection and Demolition + Mine 70 Mun (1 use) Trenches Wire Sandbags Pioneers 110 MP, 2 pop Flamethrower 50 Mun Goliath 90 Mun (1 use) Wehrmacht Mines 15 Mun (1 use) Minesweeper 10 Mun Medikit 15 Mun (2 uses) Bunker 5 Mun (1 use) Bunker (MG42) 55 Mun (1 use), 2 pop Wire Sandbags Tanktraps Do you think pioneers and engineers are better than sappers?

[gamesguy2]

What the hell does engineers and pios have anything to do with this?

Also sappers have soldier armor, which makes them tougher than their HP indicates.

Sapper with piats are much much better than grenadiers with a single shrek.

[Sharpshooter824]

umm you were sorta comparing damage capabilities in an earlier post between sappers and storms..

[DarkSoldierX]

Shreks accursey is only slightly better, your saying at long range I can hit a sherman? No, only 1 hits it out of 3 shreks fired from my 2 tankbusters hits.

BTW if 2 piats can kill a main battle tank of the Axis a Panther, then why is it so bad that it takes 2 of the Elite Axis Infantry with a AT weapon to kill a Sherman, a light tank?

See what i did there.

[jackmccrack]

Shreks accursey is only slightly better, your saying at long range I can hit a sherman? No, only 1 hits it out of 3 shreks fired from my 2 tankbusters hits.

BTW if 2 piats can kill a main battle tank of the Axis a Panther, then why is it so bad that it takes 2 of the Elite Axis Infantry with a AT weapon to kill a Sherman, a light tank?

See what i did there.

First of all, the Panther is not a main battle tank. Second of all, a Sherman is not a light tank.

Thirdly, if a Panther is killed by Piats then he was probably too close to them.

[CommanderHolt]

Plus PIATs have pretty bad penetration at long range.

[gamesguy2]

BTW if 2 piats can kill a main battle tank of the Axis a Panther, then why is it so bad that it takes 2 of the Elite Axis Infantry with a AT weapon to kill a Sherman, a light tank?

See what i did there.

Why are you comparing piats to things that cost 3x as much munitions?

You should be comparing piats to grenadiers with a single shrek.

Two piats will one volley a p4 from ambush.  Two grenadier squads with shreks will only do 1/3 damage to a sherman.  And the grenadier cost more.

Something is wrong here.

[jackmccrack]

Plus PIATs have pretty bad penetration at long range.

You must be thinking about their accuracy. Their penetration at long range is 1.

[Mukip]

Are you sure the piats will one volley a P4 from ambush?  I've never seen that happen.

[LuAn]

And why is everbody ignoring that sappers are usually basic building infantry like pios or engineers but unfortunately provide the only basic handheld AT weapon the brits have?

[gamesguy2]

Are you sure the piats will one volley a P4 from ambush?  I've never seen that happen.

I said two squads of piats.  Thats 4 total.

From ambush it does 860 damage to a P4 without skirts and over 600 to a P4 with skirts, plenty to one volley it.

Two squads of grenadiers with a shrek each does only 240 damage to a sherman/cromwell, and they cost more.

And why is everbody ignoring that sappers are usually basic building infantry like pios or engineers but unfortunately provide the only basic handheld AT weapon the brits have?

Because they are as tough as grenadiers against a lot of things.

They have 60 hp and soldier armor, compare to PGs which only have 55hp and soldier armor.   Sappers are tougher than four man PGs, the line infantry of PE.

Saying sappers are builders is being disingenuous.  Sappers are very much line infantry in every sense of the word.  Just because grenadiers can build sandbags and wire doesnt make them builders.

[Lemures]

Piats have trouble hitting anything that's moving, ambush or not. Sure they get a few good shots in now and again but most of their shots will miss.

[CommanderHolt]

Plus PIATs have pretty bad penetration at long range.

You must be thinking about their accuracy. Their penetration at long range is 1.

Yes, but their target tables penetration are pretty bad without the 2x multiplier at medium and short range. (It doesn't help that the inaccuracy compounds the problem.)

[gamesguy2]

Piats have trouble hitting anything that's moving, ambush or not. Sure they get a few good shots in now and again but most of their shots will miss.

Thats their tradeoff for being able to shoot through buildings and hedges.  And thats why you have button.

Either way you look at it, piat sappers are vastly better than shreked grens.

Yes, but their target tables penetration are pretty bad without the 2x multiplier at medium and short range. (It doesn't help that the inaccuracy compounds the problem.)

They arc over and hit the rear armor half the time anyways.

[Lemures]

Well if you're adding Tommies+bren then that Pak at the back makes the grens better again.....

[gamesguy2]

Well if you're adding Tommies+bren then that Pak at the back makes the grens better again.....

What Brits don't get the 6pounder?

Tommies+bren are like grenadiers with LMGs, ok lets add grenadiers with LMGs to the wehr side, too bad they can't button.

[CommanderHolt]

Yes, but their target tables penetration are pretty bad without the 2x multiplier at medium and short range. (It doesn't help that the inaccuracy compounds the problem.)

They arc over and hit the rear armor half the time anyways.

Quite funnily enough, I never really ever had my PIATs do that except once or twice during the time I have played EiRR recently.