[PE] Some small buffs

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[Smokaz]

Wirbelwind

Problem:
10 pop for a supression tool, quads have a availability of 4 and while costing munitions have much better dodge bonuses, in many ways a superior armor type, better veterancy and face infantry much more vulnerable to supression than rangers/airborne. Quads are also 4 (!!) pop lower and have 5 more range! Jesus why is the quad so goddamn much better than wirbelwind when it also has a ton of small doctrinal buffs it can get from armor doctrine. For 2 more pop you can have two quads over a single wirbel, which would supress a grenadier squad or a stormtrooper comparably to a wirbelwind, have more health combined and be able to flank infantry in cover if they split up.

Proposed fixes:

Population down to 7 or 8
Range increased to 45 (from 40 to same as quad)

PE PG's and Assault grenadiers

Problem: Just pathetically weak. If you have ever felt the tears run down your face as a 60mm 2 hits your vet 3 squad (happened to me twice in the same game) you know how weak they can be. They have flame and grenade weaknesses and vulnerability to american support weapons, yet they have tragic health of americans with 2/3 their squad sizes. Americans do not have flame/grenade vulnerability on their mainline inf (engineers and rifles) and brits have high health on their units and available leadership modifiers to make up for their flame grenade/vulrnability.

Proposed Fixes:

The armor type fix reinstated or a price-for-hp change similar to british infantry.

Hotchkiss (Normal/Stuka :

Problem: So here we are with the only other indirect fire support you can get with PE. A subpar stuka costing 4pps and 8 pop. The normal hotchkiss is a joke against all targets, and the upgun is basically puma with a more expensive upgun. It's lack of attractiveness is just over the top obvious.

Fix (Stuka):

Vastly decrease the recharge time
Make it 6 pop to fit in with the mobile PE army not becoming a bunch of sissy vehicles dying to a 57mm, allow it support. PE is starved to death for options like the H.Stuka represents.

Fix (normal hotckiss):

Normal gun needs looked at its accuracy at medium to long range.
Upgun needs to be Puma price (50 munitions)

Mortar halftrack:

It is awesome. Nobody denies that at fighting infantry mortars, it is awesome. But the range is one of those things that make support spam against PE so powerful, you can just sacrifice some squads to kill it and PE is robbed of its 1 viable indirect fire option. It just needs a tiny nudge to make it perfect.

Proposed fix:

Vet 1 grants +5 range and nothing else.

[Baine]

Not to mention, how many atg shots does the wirble take before he dies? 3 or 4 max.

How many shots does the quad take from paks? 3.

[spinn72]

Whirblewind - Disagree with your proposed change.  It should be reduced to 8 pop and that's it.

PGs and Assault Gs - 2 hits on any vet3 British squad from a Wher/PE mortar will kill them too.  Increase health buffs when gaining vet.  There are basically commando type infantry, they can do tonnes of damage but they're fairly weak inf.

Hotchkiss - Stuka can use a 20-30 fuel decrease but its actually pretty effective at low range (it should be used at mortar range).  Upgun should definitely be reduced.  Hotchkiss normal pop should be 6 and stuka 8.

Mortar HT - Fully agree with you there.

Baine - Whirblewind has Ostwind armour ie. it sucks against ATGs.

[boobaka]

go go smokey!! think they are all good. but i don't know if balance is the number one topic at the coding channel.

[Armfelt1666]

I agree with spinn72, it should be sufficient with a reduced pop or else give allies a pak88, a nuke, super heavy tanks + non doctrine artillery pieces.

//Armfelt

[Smokaz]

Its a supression tank unable to fight at guns, or any kind of armor. Why do you disagree with a change that allows it to molest infantry AT while still leaving it wide open to its intended counters? With a sight range of 35 it promotes support to use this range.

Even Boys AT chews up this thing if it doesn't supress them, thats how weak it is. Doesnt matter if its pop is 5 if is piss weak at doing its job, ill get a higher pop unit or a different unit type to do that job then...I'll buy the PE mg... or the PE vehicle/tank based long range anti inf unit that can take a punch.. hang on...

Its also a T1, unlike the quad, with half its availability.

Omgz wirbelwind spam, 1 piat bren carrier kills 4 of it -_-

[Mysthalin]

A single wirble is be more than capable of defeating a bren carrier with a PIAT squad inside, let alone 4 wirbles . Actualy, 4 wirbles would defeat anything lighter than a sherman...

[Demon767]

agreed i like your suggestions smokaz

+1

[salan]

I like the posts.. i loved the PE health change, i think teh problem we had with it was we did it WITH The CW ... and realized the CW were over powered, and sadly did it back the other way again. together..


meh.. i'll put it to a discussion for sure!

[Armfelt]

@Salan

Sounds promising

[Two]

Dont buff the wirble, im sick of that mofo suppressing me instantly from any range, i say keep it the pop it is but reduce suppression while increasing damage, so i can get away but will lose some men.

But i agree with the others, only way to use pgrens now is in a blob of 6 and hoping you focus fire first.

[DarkSoldierX]

I agree that most of these units have issues. The hotchkiss needs a serious fix, it is useless against infantry and armour and blows up easily and has low speed. Tank busters are fine. Panzer Grenadiers are a little weak maybe a very slight increase in HP. Assault grenadiers are weak, they could use a slight increase in HP too. I dont use the werblewind but when I do see it it seems to do its job alright, but not as good as the quad. Motar halftrack is cool but it dies alot after getting Vet 1 for me.

theres mah 2 cents

[jackmccrack]

I always found the Hotchkiss rather agile, it just lacks the dodge modifiers of armored cars.

[RikiRude]

What if they gave hotchkiss nebel rockets instead? that would be pretty neat. might actually make it op though.

[Demon767]

4 rocket holders, each shoots 4 rockets, 16 rocket barrage    nice  .

[Smokaz]

What if they gave hotchkiss nebel rockets instead? that would be pretty neat. might actually make it op though.

Could be a perk for SE