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[Demon767]

4 zooks is just overkill, ur dream'n

[Bubz]

In my opinion rangers aren't worth their price at 330-220.

[Baine]

Here i found this: http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=9059.0

Just saying. The 4 zook idea sounds okay for me if the munition price is ok.

[Mysthalin]

2x4 bazooka ranger squads, at 12 popcap would be capable of defeating a P4.
2x2 shrek storm squads, at 10 popcap are capable of one-volleying a sherman from cloak.
Anyone else see the flawedness in the proposal of a quad-zook bundle costing 260 mun when double shreks cost 280?

Demon, I have seen countless vet 3 blobs of 4 thompson'ed rangers. Their 4x2=2x4 bazookas couldn't even kill an ostwind, so seriously .

Out of the 8 bazookas fired at long range, it will be lucky if 3 hit the target. It's likely that just ONE of them will penetrate the P4. Total of 156 damage. That's CLEARLY overkill AT?

At medium range 5 zooks will hit, 2 will penetrate, dealing a total of 300 damage. Wooh to "not likely the rangers will ever get that close".

[Demon767]

thats all theory, running of stats and pre assumed notions on how things run, the fact its all down to luck, which decides most of the time, and the fact is zooks with tank reapers hit and pentrate more than half the time, and you fail to realise battlefield situations and pathing.

Than with that 8 you put down 2 airborne with 4 RRs, 24 pop, just enough for more Rangers with full thompsons, compile that with combined arms of allied tanks, anti infantry, all with fireup.

If you cant play properly you get kited, shoots zooks from long range, waste men. if you know what your doing, it will be far devastating. and combined arms, ATs, Airborne, shermans pershing etc, its far to overkill and OP to implement

Why would you even bring up a ostwind, who will charge a ostwind if its kiting you, if it was so dam close, replay or it didnt happen.

660mp 520mu for 8 zooks on only 2 platforms 12pop with tank reapers and fireup

960mp-1200mp 1120mu for 8 shreks on 4 platforms 20pop

make your own conclusions

[scrapking]

2x4 bazooka ranger squads, at 12 popcap would be capable of defeating a P4.
2x2 shrek storm squads, at 10 popcap are capable of one-volleying a sherman from cloak.
Anyone else see the flawedness in the proposal of a quad-zook bundle costing 260 mun when double shreks cost 280?

Is that a trick question?  It actually seems pretty spot on even up to me.

You have to include the better platform that rangers represent in this case as well.  Fireup, heroic armor & 2 extra squad members is pretty huge I think.

[Tymathee]

well considering that zooks vs p4's do the same damage as schrecks, 120 (75 x 1.6 multiplier) a double ranger call in with 4 zooks each, if at least 6 hit and penetrate, we're talking about that p4 is GONE.

Then, if you add on TR which most people will go for in infantry, 4-5 will take it out. So yea, I think that would be good in price considering that without the smg, you can book up other weapons if you have 4 zooks and 2 carbines.

[Bubz]

This is non-sense, a ranger squad with 4 zooks would be totally awful, it may fit in robot wars (awesome program tbh).

[Sach]

2 4 zook ranger squads would not defeat a skirted p4

[Smokaz]

With reapers they would, and its the infantry doctrine that we are talking about adding 4 zook rangers to.

[Tymathee]

2 4 zook ranger squads would not defeat a skirted p4

Yes it would. Are you kidding me? If they all penetrate.

Tank reaper bazooka = 144 vs p4's

p4 health = 600

If 4 hit = 576
if 5 hit = 720 - dead p4

okay, say you fire 8, 3 penetrate and the other 5 bounce off.

432 + 108 (15% deflect modifier) = 540

which is still a crippled p4 and would take one other hit to take it out, pretty simple to do.

[LuAn]

Mhm what about PE?
One ranger squad would be able to alpha strike anything but a P4IST/Panther?

[Sach]

2 4 zook ranger squads would not defeat a skirted p4

Yes it would. Are you kidding me? If they all penetrate.

Tank reaper bazooka = 144 vs p4's

p4 health = 600

If 4 hit = 576
if 5 hit = 720 - dead p4

okay, say you fire 8, 3 penetrate and the other 5 bounce off.

432 + 108 (15% deflect modifier) = 540

which is still a crippled p4 and would take one other hit to take it out, pretty simple to do.

why do people always revert to numbers in these discussions. Play the game.

Rangers miss frequently and when they do hit they will very, very often bounce on a p4s front armour.

I have seen 1 ranger squad fire 8 zooks at a P4 and do fuck all, it would be no differen to 2 squads firing 8 all in one go.

[Killer344]

2 4 zook ranger squads would not defeat a skirted p4

Yes it would. Are you kidding me? If they all hit and penetrate.

Tank reaper bazooka = 144 vs p4's

p4 health = 600

If 4 hit = 576
if 5 hit = 720 - dead p4

okay, say you fire 8, 3 penetrate and the other 5 bounce off.

432 + 108 (15% deflect modifier) = 540

which is still a crippled p4 and would take one other hit to take it out, pretty simple to do.

[AmPM]

The problem comes from the Tank Reapers + 4 zook squads and their balance vs Factions that rely on vehicles as their anti-Infantry, Support, and Anti-tank firepower.

Lets say you have 8 pop of rangers, with 4+ zooks.

The rest of your stuff is AI or a mix.

PE dies.

Its not that rangers are useless, they do very well vs PE and infantry. Its just people like to rush non TR Rangers at the fronts of P4s as well and wonder why they lose.

[Demon767]

2 4 zook ranger squads would not defeat a skirted p4

Yes it would. Are you kidding me? If they all penetrate.

Tank reaper bazooka = 144 vs p4's

p4 health = 600

If 4 hit = 576
if 5 hit = 720 - dead p4

okay, say you fire 8, 3 penetrate and the other 5 bounce off.

432 + 108 (15% deflect modifier) = 540

which is still a crippled p4 and would take one other hit to take it out, pretty simple to do.

why do people always revert to numbers in these discussions. Play the game.

Rangers miss frequently and when they do hit they will very, very often bounce on a p4s front armour.

I have seen 1 ranger squad fire 8 zooks at a P4 and do fuck all, it would be no differen to 2 squads firing 8 all in one go.

i guess most of us will say the opposite about TR zooks

its just your bad luck.

[gamesguy2]

The problem comes from the Tank Reapers + 4 zook squads and their balance vs Factions that rely on vehicles as their anti-Infantry, Support, and Anti-tank firepower.

Lets say you have 8 pop of rangers, with 4+ zooks.

The rest of your stuff is AI or a mix.

PE dies.

Its not that rangers are useless, they do very well vs PE and infantry. Its just people like to rush non TR Rangers at the fronts of P4s as well and wonder why they lose.

4 zook rangers would be no worse than airborne vs PE.

You'll be missing at least half your shots with zooks, and they only do 75 damage to PE vehicles each hit.  Compared to airborne that always hit.

An RR airborne squad also retains much more survivability and can lose more men before it starts impacting their firepower.

[Freek]

zooks don't do anything to stop the PE blobs that are so popular these days...

[Malevolence]

What is this argument about rangers instashotting P4s? Without skirts bazookas have about 50% penetration, with skirts a tank reaper bazooka still has about 50% penetration...

[Bubz]

It's madness