Computer991.CommieKiller.Velocity Vs Fallen.JXC.Warlight

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[fallensoldier7]

Arty spam ftw?

http://www.mediafire.com/?wyny4zwzjic

http://www.mediafire.com/?kmmotziwgum

First off, sorry JXC if I seemed rude during/after the game, I was just upset that arty spam actually worked against us.  Secondly, bad maneuvers by myself at the end, but I really doubt that was the thing that made us lose because Warlight was almost out of units anyway.

I'm usually not one to complain about something, but this just really seems out of hand.

Ok, so I know that the usual argument is that a doctrine with a ton of arty is weaker than a doctrine that gets the buffs because their units will be weaker, and when the RCA doctrine runs out of off-maps they will be the weaker one.  While that sometimes is true, the current state of RCA (ESPECIALLY with 2 RCA players on the same team) means that you WON'T run out of arty.  The WHOLE game there was arty dropping everywhere.  EVERY TIME that I engaged the enemy, I had arty dropped near me.  I was doing a decent job of dodging it, but I couldn't say the same for my teammates.  Probably one of the only reasons I was able to dodge so much of it was because overall I have a very mobile army. 

Another thing about this is that the 3rd player on the other team was armor.  Like other armor players, this guy had more vehicles and tanks than the usual infantry or airborne player.  In order to counter these things, I need to back my PIVs up with paks.  However, with all the arty dropping in, none of my paks would last past 1 engagement.  Even if I won an engagement (or at least pushed them back) they would just pull back temporarily while dropping arty on the paks.  This in turn meant my team had less AT in the later parts of the game, when they brought out the pershings and fireflies.

Players can have 5 earthshakers and 5 mortar barrages with the t4.  In this game, there were 2 RCAs with that t4.  That's a total of 10 earthshakers and 10 mortar barrages, with a priest from each player.  This would be fine and dandy, but they get all of these off-maps at exactly ZERO cost to the rest of their army.  Only a few abilities affect non-artillery units in the RCA tree, so even by taking these off-maps the RCA players don't lose very much in their firepower.

I would write more.. but I have to go.  As a final note (before I write more) I really think that we could have taken these guys if they spammed something else besides artillery.  AB spam I can deal with, but arty spam seems so out of hand, mainly because it doesn't hinder your army at all to get so many off-maps.  Any input is appreciated, and please let me know if I'm mistaken or missing something.

[Smokaz]

Nooooo my paks

luger uber alles

[Rocksitter]

 I had the same kind of game I could not count the amount of off maps Demon was on my team and after the game we talked about the arty spam..

 but cumming from you who spams most of the time it seems out of place ..

 maybe a hard cap on off maps per game would work..
its a shame when more of your units are killed by off maps than anything else...

[Jodomar]

Well you have to think of this as end game because rca kind of sucks untill it can unlock its t3's and t4. It seems more annoying then anything to fight against it but i hate commando sniper teams even more.

[BigDick]

i think the only way to win currently as axis against a equal skilled allied team, without a huge amount of luck would lead us into that topic

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=11483.msg196257;topicseen#new

with all doctrine unlocks and pp just going to offmaps and oversupply there is no even matchup not even enjoyable games possible

no one actually enjoys to run into 25-30 offmaps (in a 3v3) and enough onmaps to ruin ur fun by constantly artillery barrages everywhere

[Killer344]

Go go go PE! good luck trying to win against it with arty spam.

[crimsonrabbit]

I never noticed a warning when the mortar barrages come down. No smoke, no nothing.

[Unkn0wn]

Don't worry, we're on it like chocolate on a brownie.

[BigDick]

Go go go PE! good luck trying to win against it with arty spam.

especially pe is very vulnerable to offmaps like earthshaker

even with mobility the spead is huge enough that halftracks get instabib very often....een my full health hetzer got to 10% health by a direct hit...an other one got to 50% health by a non direct hit.....

the pe infantry dies quick because of low hp so

only way to win currently is to get as much heavy and medium tanks as possible and try to kill their at


but even than its just no fun to get arty spamed and airborne or commando blobbed

[Killer344]

What? are you kidding me? Earthshaker is f***** easy to dodge with the PE...

[CafeMilani]

yes just run away! so easy man!

[BradAnderson]

Have you seen the spread? it hits anything worthwhile about as many times as you would hit an apple hanging from a tree with a baseball bat blindfolded, stoned and drunk.

[fallensoldier7]

but cumming from you who spams most of the time it seems out of place ..

Dude.. I was screwing around in that game.  If you looked at the scoreboard at the end, my partner did most of the killing.  We already won when I brought on my 6 sapper squads, which I bought accidentally because I forgot how much AT my company had already.  That's probably the only time I've ever had more than 3 of the same kind of unit on the field at once (excluding remanned AT guns and flamer pios).

Well you have to think of this as end game because rca kind of sucks untill it can unlock its t3's and t4. It seems more annoying then anything to fight against it but i hate commando sniper teams even more.

Please, play against a team of RCA players who use 10 off-maps each, oversupply on FOO, and at least 1 priest, and tell me that playing against that is NOT more annoying than playing against a commando sniper.

Have you seen the spread? it hits anything worthwhile about as many times as you would hit an apple hanging from a tree with a baseball bat blindfolded, stoned and drunk.

Earthshaker can be deadly, but unless you blob your tanks (which is hard to do because of pathing) or you blob infantry, it shouldn't hurt you too much.  The only problem is that people can have 5 of these things in a single game!  The old limit (which was 3 without the t4) was enough.  5 is overkill.  In a 4v4, that's potentially 20 tank-killing huge radius off-maps.  Either lower the availability or decrease the damage these things do.  Doing both would be too much of a nerf though, but doing neither of these things would make earthshaker too ridiculous (like it is now).

EiR, with the veterancy and everything, has always been in my eyes a unit-micro-intensive mod.  UNITS should be winning games, not off-maps.  Off-maps should be (and they're supposed to be) used for taking out fortified areas or a huge blob of infantry.  They should be used for taking out a mortar, or killing an MG/ATG so your UNITS can move in.  There shouldn't be SO MANY off-maps that they can afford to just drop one every time there is an engagement, even if it's only 2 gren squads, an officer, and a PIV that they're fighting against.  It's demoralizing for me to see my micro just be overwhelmed by attrition because my opponents could click on an off-map and target it on my troops more times than I could dodge them.

I really wished superior micro, decision making, and game sense would win games, not a superior number of off-maps.  I micro my fricking butt off the entire game, dodging arty after arty after arty shot, but then a lucky Earthshaker shell hits my undamaged PIV and I have to repair it because an Earthshaker takes away 90% of its health (I have GS too).

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm ranting like a little girl.  Usually, even if there is an imbalance, I learn to adapt to it and accept it, because most of these imbalances take skill to do.  Even AB spam takes skill, or at least enough skill to not charge your AB at everything.  Arty spam, however, takes 0 skill at all, unless you count deciding whether or not to drop arty a skill.

[CommieKillerz]

RCA is all about arty tho.
All of its doctrine abilities are tied to arty & buffing arty!

Total arties I had in this game:
3 FOO + Lit ups (Captain, 2 lieuts) (T0+T2)
Victor Target (T2)
Arty Package (2 Earthshaker, 2 Mortar Sat, 2 Smoke) (T4)
Earthshaker (max 3) (T3)
Priest (Supercharged T3, Creeping Barrage) (T2)
25 Pounder (Supercharged T3) (T1)

If you killed all my officers, and on map arties u could have won.
After all, I only have few AT counters (2 ATGs, Piats, 2 Fireflies) which of course was covered by my teammates.

[EIRRMod]

Thanks for the input Fallen,

Thats what this phase is for, to see the extremes if people focus completely one way.

5 is quite overkill, we've been discussing removing any T4 additional usage doctrines to see how that pans out in our next meeting.

While I do see your point, you are also facing 2 arty *specific* doctrines, with lts and officers + FOO, theres counters if you know what youre facing, and at a glance Id use Armour.
Thats not a 'LTP' btw, but an observation of what the weakness could be for this 'play'.

[Mysthalin]

Mysthalin's Input!


Earthshaker : 1 Free, 2 max.
Mortar Saturation : 1 Free, 2 max.
T4 : 1 free additional use.

Total of 2 free, 3 max off-maps.
Should be done to all artilery T4s - Air supperiority, Artilery HQ, Falling Fear, etc.

[fallensoldier7]

Thanks for the input Fallen,

Thats what this phase is for, to see the extremes if people focus completely one way.

5 is quite overkill, we've been discussing removing any T4 additional usage doctrines to see how that pans out in our next meeting.

While I do see your point, you are also facing 2 arty *specific* doctrines, with lts and officers + FOO, theres counters if you know what youre facing, and at a glance Id use Armour.
Thats not a 'LTP' btw, but an observation of what the weakness could be for this 'play'.

Yea, PIVs do well against RCA by itself, but in a team game there are going to be other companies in the mix.  This game, for example, had an armor player.  While my PIVs were doing excellent damage (at least the ones that didn't get hit by a lucky earthshaker) my GS PIVs wouldn't be able to take on shermans with ATG support.  Paks would usually be able to help me win against shermans, but with all of the arty it was hard to use a pak for more than 1 engagement.  At one point I ran a 6 PIV army, and had I known how bad the arty spam would have been I would have gotten the extra PIVs, but then I would have been overrun by the Pershings and FFs because of the lack of pak support due to the RCA.

I heard there's going to be an actual reset in a week, so hopefully I won't have to actually think of a specific company build to combat double/triple/quadruple RCA.

Sorry if I seem a bit obnoxious/annoying about this, just trying to tell my view of this.  Plus I'm a bit tired so I can't tell how my writing is sounding lol.